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Brand the Interpreter
What if La Malinche—the Indigenous woman who famously served as interpreter and advisor to Hernán Cortés during the Spanish conquest of Mexico—could share her stories? Imagine the insights and experiences she could offer about the power of language and navigating the complexities of two worlds. That’s the spirit behind the Brand the Interpreter Podcast!
Hosted by Mireya Pérez, an interpreter and personal brand advocate, this podcast gives today’s interpreters a platform to share their own fascinating stories, challenges, and triumphs. Each episode pulls back the curtain on the world of interpreting, from navigating high-stakes conversations to facilitating cross-cultural understanding, offering listeners a glimpse into the lives of the professionals who bring meaning across languages.
Whether you’re an interpreter, a bilingual professional, or simply curious about the magic that happens behind the scenes, Brand the Interpreter immerses you in the stories of language professionals making an impact every day. It’s more than just a podcast—it’s a celebration of language, connection, and the vital human element that makes communication possible.
Join us to explore how the power of language, driven by human connection, shapes understanding, opens new worlds, and transforms perspectives, revealing the deeper truths that unite us all.
Brand the Interpreter
Burnout To Purpose with Heidi Leal
What do you do when the work that once felt like a calling starts to drain you dry? I sit down with Heidi Leal to follow a courageous pivot from school counseling into professional interpreting, a shift sparked by a year of volunteering in Guatemala that reignited her sense of service and clarified a new path forward. From triage rooms and field clinics to certification exams and first contracts, this story blends heart and hard-won tactics you can use if you’re craving more autonomy in your career.
Heidi walks us through completing a 40-hour medical interpreting program, earning CHI certification, and navigating the first agency roles that built fluency and confidence. Then we get real about the industry: restrictions on working abroad, rate disparities tied to geography, and what it takes to identify partners who actually respect interpreters. That inflection point leads to a smarter strategy, niching into mental health interpreting where her counseling background becomes a true asset, and shifting focus toward direct clients for better alignment, pay, and professional control.
Along the way, we talk about marketing yourself without feeling salesy, rewriting a LinkedIn profile to speak to buyer needs, and the difference between bragging and positioning. If you’ve ever wondered whether your past experience can power a new specialty, or how to move beyond LSP dependence without burning bridges, this conversation offers a grounded blueprint. We close with practical steps: build your network, find mentors, invest in training, and treat autonomy like a skill you practice every day.
If this journey resonates, help us grow the Brand the Interpreter community, subscribe, leave a review on Apple Podcasts or Spotify, and share this episode with someone who’s ready for their next chapter.
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Welcome back, Branded Bunch, to a brand new episode of the Brand the Interpreter Podcast. This is Mireia, your host, and this is episode number 117, the final episode of season eight, as we close out 2025 together. Before we begin, I want to take a moment to say thank you. Thank you for listening, for sharing episodes, for reaching out, and for continuing to support the show. Whether you've been here from the start or joined somewhere along the way, your presence is what keeps Brand the Interpreter moving forward. And if this podcast has been meaningful to you, I'd love your support as we head into the new year. A rating or review on Apple Podcasts or Spotify truly helps others discover the show and supports these conversations continuing into the future. Today's episode feels like the right way to close the season. Because it asks a question many of us may quietly carry. What happens when the work that once gave us purpose starts to exhaust you? And the way forward is maybe hiding in plain sight, in a skill that maybe you've used before, a past experience you haven't fully tapped, or something that you've been thinking about for a while, waiting for the right moment to take seriously. My guest today is Heidi Leal, and her story moves through community roots, years of work supporting families as they navigated complex systems, and the gradual buildup of burnout. As responsibility and demand intensified, pressing pause took her to Guatemala, where volunteering as a medical interpreter in field clinics and triage rooms reignited her sense of service and clarified a new direction. In our conversation today, we get into the realities behind that shift: completing a 40-hour medical interpreting program, earning CHI certification, navigating agency restrictions and geographic rate disparities, and learning how to evaluate which partners truly respect the profession. We also talked about what changed when she leaned into mental health interpreting, how prior experience became leveraged, and what it looks like to move towards greater professional autonomy. And that idea, autonomy, intention, choosing what comes next, doesn't stop with this conversation. It's a thread that carries forward into the new year ahead. As we look toward 2026, year six of Brand the Interpreter, by the way. I know. I'm excited for what's next. New conversations, new journeys, new stories, and the continued growth of a community that's thinking more deliberately about where we are and where we're headed together. With a bold goal on the horizon of reaching 100,000 downloads. I hope you'll stay connected beyond the episodes, though. Share your stories, share your ideas, the questions that you're sitting with, and the conversations that you want to hear next. You can always find me between episodes on social media where this community continues to live, connect, and grow. I wish you a successful, grounded, and inspired new year. As for now though, let's get into today's conversation with Heidi Leal. Heidi, welcome to the show. Very happy to have you here on Brand the Interpreter.
SPEAKER_02:Thank you. I'm so glad to be here. I've been listening to your podcast uh probably for about six months now. And I can't believe I'm one of your um guests.
SPEAKER_00:So well, thank you first and foremost for supporting the podcast. That means a lot. And I'm so very happy to be able to invite you on this platform to be able to share your language professional journey and story with this audience. So I'd like to begin by asking you my favorite question for all my guests on this show, which is what is your fondest childhood memory?
SPEAKER_02:Okay, well, I was raised in Simi Valley, California, which is um a suburb outside of LA, Los Angeles, probably about a I don't know, 30-minute drive to and from LA. Well, it was the 80s, and we grew up a very traditional neighborhood. You know, like all the neighborhood kids would come and run around and play outside. My family and I, we kind of lived at the end of the block. So it was interesting because we kind of felt a little bit um isolated and excluded from the other neighborhood kids. My family immigrated to the US from Guatemala. I think it was 1982, during the whole civil war over there is when we moved over here. So that's kind of where we landed. And I had four brothers and sisters. Actually, it's four girls and one boy. So we kind of just played with each other. We ended up finding a family in our neighborhood who was also from uh Central America, a family from El Salvador, and so we immediately connected. We were the only two Hispanic families in that neighborhood, right? Yeah, I was just going to ask that. It was um, I don't know. The older I get, the more emotional I get. But um it was this special relationship because, as I said, we we were newly immigrated. We were the only Spanish-speaking Hispanic family in the block in the neighborhood. People were friendly, but we still felt isolated in that way. So this other family that we uh met became like our our our family. They became our family in the US. And they had children our age, and so they would come over to our house, we'd run over to their house, and we would just play in the backyard. So we were just blessed to meet this other family who from El Salvador, who interestingly enough, years later, we ended up, you know, after talking with the family, we found out that when they immigrated to the US, they were on the same exact airplane we were. No way, and I used to think, oh, that's just an urban myth, you know, we're they're just making it up because but uh now I realize that you know El Salvador is neighbors with Guatemala, and when you fly to and from Guatemala or El Salvador, they'll have layovers, and so they had gotten on their flight from El Salvador, they had a layover in Guatemala, and we got on that same flight.
SPEAKER_00:Wow. Wow, that's so strange. What do they call that when it's like, oh no, no, I'm gonna forget the word, but yeah, that's so interesting. Who would have thought, right? Like, oh, we're gonna be neighbors, by the way.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, literally they, yeah, we ended up uh, you know, the kids we went to the same elementary school, and that's where our parents met, and we were living a block from each other.
SPEAKER_00:That's so great. Thank you so much for having shared that memory with us. I'd like for us now to fast forward into the uh time and space when you are making your decision on what you want to be when you grow up. Do you recall what led you towards what you decided to do initially or maybe something that occurred? Do you have a recollection of potentially the path that you were in or that you were taking in order for you to feel inspired to follow the career path you decided to follow initially? Yeah, I absolutely remember that.
SPEAKER_02:Because I was I was a little older. So actually, when I went to uh the university, when I went to when I applied, decided to apply to um four year universities, I actually went to community college first, which I'm so grateful for and I'm a huge advocate because it gave me time to, yeah. I mean, I think a lot of successful professionals actually go to community college first.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:Um, because it gave me time to grow, explore, figure out and understand the higher education system because my parents couldn't help me with that. You know, they they bear, you know, they didn't go to school here, they go to college here, so they didn't understand how to navigate that. And we had to figure it out on my own. So community college, and I'm you know, just taking my general ed. My dad had a um cleaning business, a maintenance business. That's that's how he supported our family, and that's how um, yeah, that's that's what he did for a living. And um, you know, he cleaned huge mansions, literally. I had clients who were film producers, you know, multimillion millionaires, right? And uh, and I remember, you know, um just in conversations over dinner or whatever, when I'm talking to my dad, you know, we talk about his clients and what they did. And uh I remember him mentioning that one of his clients was a landscape architect. Um, I was like, wow, that's kind of interesting. I'm already probably like 15 years old at this point, 15, 17 years old. And so I don't even know how because I don't think we had Google back then. I think I found the term landscape architect in like a home and garden magazine or something. I I mean yeah, I can't even tell you how, but I researched what a landscape architect is. We don't even know how we used to research people without Google, yeah. I don't know. But it was on print and it was in a magazine or an article. And I'm like, this sounds like a really cool job, right? I like I love gardening. I used to, that was like one of the things I like to do with my grandma in the backyard was uh was was garden and uh and I was just like and I just like making things look beautiful. So I was like, okay, that sounds like a cool job, you know, and this man who has a huge house and can afford to have people taking care of it, that's what he does. So that sounds like something I'd like to do. So um when it came time to applying, um, well, I reason I researched, you know, what schools um offered that program. There was only two in California. I I believe one was UC Berkeley, and then the other one was Cal Poly uh in San Luis Obispo and uh Cal State Polytech University. I had been up to San Luis Obispo with a friend who whose family had like a beach house or something in Pismo Beach, which is like 15 minutes um south of Slow. And uh so I was a little bit familiar with the area and it was only about a two and a half hour drive from where we lived. So it was either go up like I want to say Berkeley was maybe like four hours from where we lived, and I'd never been to Berkeley, didn't know anybody there, or apply to Cal Poly Slow, which is only two and a half hours, and yeah, I've been there before. So that's how I made my decision between those two. I just I only applied to one school and uh I remember oh, what was the admissions rate back then? I don't know, but it was a really small program. Right now I want to say the admissions rate to Cal Poly is like 30%, maybe something below. But yeah, it was the only program, the only school I applied to when I got in first uh first time.
SPEAKER_00:Wait, so they had a they had a landscape architect program?
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, they had a landscape architect program. Oh wow, it was yeah, it was pretty prestigious. And I, you know, I was a transfer student. Um in my program, I think there was only there's probably about 50 or 60 of us, and then I want to say like 20, 25 of us were transfer students.
SPEAKER_01:Wow.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, so it was um it was a pretty big deal. So I I go um and uh first semester, you know, I I'm I meet all my um all my peers and uh first semester I decide you know we start taking our our landscape architect design courses and theory and all this and that, and I immediately knew this wasn't for me.
SPEAKER_00:Why, why, why tell us got take us through that? What was the what was like the deciding factor? It just was it no longer resonating, or what do you think it was?
SPEAKER_02:I think I remember part of it was like I had a really hard time with abstract concepts. The creativity, like I feel like I'm not very, oh, very like I would look at my they would do this thing where we would um they would have us design something or draw something or a project, and then we'd pin it up on the walls, and you know, we would get critiqued. And so you're obviously comparing yourself to your peers, and everyone else's work just seemed looked better than mine. I definitely had imposter syndrome, which wasn't even a term back then, because I remember feeling very, very unqualified and adequate. Uh, because all my other peers had, you know, some of them had uh their parents were in the profession. They had already taken some AutoCAD classes, which is was one of the programs that we used for um computer designs. They just had more background knowledge. They might have taken like drafting classes. And you know, as a first generation college student, I didn't have that advantage, that background experience or that background knowledge, or therefore it made me feel yeah, inadequate and gave me that like imposter syndrome, like, oh man, they picked the wrong person.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, yeah, yeah. Especially when you're coming from a young, like at a young age and not having anyone to sort of you know help you navigate through those thoughts, that can be extremely difficult. And I cannot imagine. I mean, now you use the word reserve, right? But coming from that sort of that space and then putting your work in front of an audience to be, you know, critiqued, I imagine can be super difficult for anyone, but especially for someone who's you know what what you call reserved, right? So that I'm sure that that must not have been a good feeling either. I know I have like my work up in front of an audience, and look at me now, right? I like putting my stuff out there, but but that took years to finesse. So if you're just starting in that space, yeah, I cannot imagine. Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:But yeah, so I I was like, uh oh, immediately I decided to to pivot and uh and and change majors. And I was like, okay, this architecture thing, it requires like too much math, like you know, a little bit of engineering knowledge, and yeah. So so I pivoted, I I transferred into um environmental horticulture because with environmental horticulture, you're you don't have to be an architect, you can be a designer. So I was like, oh, this this'll be a little bit easier for me. Boy, was I wrong. It was a science degree that required botany and organic chemistry.
SPEAKER_00:Oh wow. A different a different kind of difficult.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah. But you know, I'm I'm the kind of person that, okay, you know, at this point I'd already, you know, invested, I don't know, want to say like two or three years into my academics. Um I I just decided, well, I I just gotta finish this degree and I'm gonna figure out what to do. You know, as long as I get a bachelor's degree, I'll figure out what to do afterwards. Um so and way I ended up um in counseling was because while I was working on my bachelor's degree in in science, I um was uh I had a work study um job at an elementary school. And so after uh after I was done with classes, I would go over to this elementary school and I was the assistant to the secretary at the front office. And I remember going to my job and I was I felt like I was going to Disneyland. I remember that's how I would describe it to people. It was like I just had so much fun there. You know, granted, I was like a part-time employee, this college student, but I just love the environment. And I think I've always just kind of loved like um like helping professions. Like I love like, you know, it's just like the little things like um having a parent walk into the office, and it was a it was actually a bilingual school, it was a dual immersion uh program. So, you know, having a Spanish-speaking parent walk into the office and me being able to speak to them in Spanish and say, you know, welcome. How what can I help you with? And be able to help them in that way. It was just like, you know, when I was there for whatever time it was, the two, three hours that I had my shift, it was like I was constantly like um feeling getting gratification from the work that I was doing, right? Helping whatever it was, like helping the teacher um open her office because she got or her classroom because she got locked out, or helping the parent when they came in to check out the their kid, or I don't know, it just was very, very fulfilling work. And so when I finished my um bachelor's degree, I ended up staying in slow because I I loved it. And uh and the principal there um really liked me. So he got me a part-time instructional aid uh job position. And um, and I just I didn't want to leave the school. I just kept getting all these other little part-time jobs. I was like the crossing guard for a little bit, so I would wear the vest with the um and and my stop sign, and I would, you know, walk the kids across the uh across the street. I um I worked at the after-school homework club.
SPEAKER_00:All such important roles. And it's like it just if you work in a school setting, you know that each one of these roles is so important for students, right? For kids when they're going to school. So, you know, I don't know. Yeah, I can I can see how how the story is sort of coming together because it they're all such important roles in a school setting, especially in a school setting.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, so I so I got um that was what I loved about the office, was right. I was in the office for a long time, and I want to say primarily most of my time. And so I got to see all these different roles, right? Like the bilingual teaching assistant, the yard duty, the um the crossing guard, whatever it was, right? The cafeteria lady. It was Speech pathologist. And I would see all these people coming in and through the office and you know, familiarizing myself with what they did. And uh, and um, and we had a school counselor, and I was like, wow, that's that seems like a cool job. So I would, you know, talk to the school counselor. She was really cool. I've been really blessed in my life to um have people mentor me, right? So this this school counselor, she mentored me, you know, whether I I don't know if sometimes I call people my mentors and I don't even know, think they know they're my mentors. I think unintentionally she was mentoring me, you know, telling me about like what she did and how she ended up doing it. And um, and I'm just really interested in people. So I also ask a lot of questions. And uh yeah, so I, you know, a few years after I I had earned my bachelor's degree and I was just working at the school, I decided that I was gonna apply for a uh high school or a school counseling program, which we we happened to have one at Cal Poly Slow, so I didn't have to move anywhere. And uh I did I did that for about 15 years and I loved it. It was hard work. It was um I like sometimes I look back now and I'm like, my goodness, I don't know how I um I mean it was it was intense because you're pulled in all different directions, especially when you're not like a specialized school counselor, which most of us aren't. We're you know a general school counselor, they'll either assign you by grade level or alphabet, and you know, you're addressing uh personal social issues, academic issues, uh attendance issues. Uh, you know, you need to be an expert in university admissions. Um, you're just being pulled in all different directions.
SPEAKER_00:In your reading, ID, did you ever encounter uh working with an interpreter?
SPEAKER_02:So at my first school site, I I was the only Spanish-speaking counselor, um, the only Spanish-speaking staff member in the office for for, I want to say for the first two or three years. Um we didn't have a large Spanish-speaking population, but we did have, you know, we we did have our English learners and our Spanish-speaking parents. Um so at that school site, I was actually, you know, I think a lot of people can relate who are bilingual, um, whether it's in school settings or anywhere, and there's a need for someone to interpret, I would just, you know, step in and interpret. And uh I don't think I thought twice about it, you know, it was just me helping in another language. So, no, at that school site, I I know, because when I, you know, when we had Spanish speaking parents, I guess I was the interpreter, even though I didn't identify myself that way. There was a time period when the there there was a loss of funding in the schools. And so um, you know, I didn't have tenure and I ended up uh being laid off. And a few years later, I got hired at a different school district that has a primarily Spanish-speaking population. So I was working at the school district. Uh, a lot of our parents are immigrant parents uh working in agriculture, and so the need for Spanish-speaking staff was very, very high. And um, and at that, and it was also a very large school, so with a lot of funding. So at this particular school site and district that I was working at, we did have interpreters. I'm not sure if they're full-time or contract, um, but I remember I was like, wow, I can go to my counseling meeting or my IEP, whatever it is, and even though I speak Spanish, I don't have to do take on double roles, double responsibilities. I can just, you know, do my job and get across the information that I need to get across without having to translate it. Um and so that was I that was so helpful for me. And I actually, even though I could speak to the parent in, it was actually cool because I I could speak to the parent in Spanish, right? Because I felt like I could, you know, make connect better, right? And then the interpreter would just interpret in English to the non-speaking Spanish speakers, and then vice versa, you know, when I would uh you know say make a statement or whatever, uh share information in English, then I didn't have to worry. I had the the confidence and the trust that the interpreter was going to transmit the message to the parent.
SPEAKER_00:So true. Except that can become extremely difficult to you're you're making your interpreter work double time with the switching, but that's so true. I mean, imagine, right? Having that load off of you that you don't have to remember what you just said so that you could interpret back in either language what was just said, right? Which is so important, I think, especially in well, I don't want to say especially in educational settings. I imagine interpreters from all different areas, um, sectors encounter the same thing when they're working with bilingual participants, um, you know, being able to stick to the one language so that you go in one direction the majority of the time and you're not having to switch back and forth um during the meeting, it it can be it can be a difficult or a challenging um encounter. But I think when when um our bilingual professionals are expected to to do that that role, like you said, right? To have the double roles, I don't think individuals that are monolingual realize necessarily that it is a it is a a task, you know, it is a different role, and you're having to take on both roles. Sometimes not even the bilingual individual, like you said earlier. Like I didn't think of it as work, I just was communicating with them and their language, but then you go into something like an IEP, and then it's like, okay, this is a little bit more, this is a little bit more complicated. I'd rather just focus on giving you the information you need, right? Thoroughly and have somebody else take over this role. So I mean, I'm of course now I'm sure you understand it, but perhaps at that moment in time it wasn't, it wasn't just you know, it wasn't necessarily clicking yet just yet, right?
SPEAKER_02:No, and now that you say that, Mireya, about the switching back and forth, I feel really bad. I mean, I was just trying to get my information across. And then yeah, I just, you know, even with my parents for a long time, it was really weird for me to speak in English to my parents because I'm like, well, they speak Spanish, like and you know, I don't know. It's just so I do the same thing with um Spanish speakers. Like, if I know you speak Spanish and that's your dominant language, I'm gonna speak to you in Spanish because I think it's just no, it's difficult.
SPEAKER_00:It's natural too, I think. And and you know, the interpreter, it just depends, right? And where they're at in their space. If it's a contract interpreter, really difficult for a contract interpreter to come in and say, if you can stick to one language, it's it, you know, it flows much more natural with the interpreter on deck. Um, but uh as a as an individual that speaks the language of the parent, then it's easier to say, hey, I'm just going to convey it to you in this one language. Um, but I think if if an interpreter basically states, um, you know, it's okay, or rather, the bilingual person states, I know that we usually communicate in Spanish, I speak Spanish, you speak Spanish, but for the sake of the meeting and the interpreter, we're going to go in English. And then if you have specific questions, we can address it in the same language after the meeting or something of the sort, right? But again, this is not something that comes to people don't think about that part because no one no one's necessarily presenting that information. But it's okay, it's all forgiven because now you're a trained interpreter. You know, you know better now that you can advocate to even support bilingual professionals. So absolutely. Actually, take us through that because you just said, I mean, you you did eventually years later pivot into the interpreting world. And so I'd like I'd like for you to take us there now. Like what happened that made you look in the direction of becoming a professional trained interpreter? What happened there that you made the transition?
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, so it's so funny. So when I was uh when I was sitting in these IEPs and um, you know, watching these interpreters work, I I remember uh one time thinking like we we had this, like, you know, I think you have you've you've interpreted in um education, right? I think that's your background. Um, so you know IEPs can be really straightforward, simple, and done. And then there are some IEPs that, wow, there are some books to write about these stories, right? Oh yeah. So um, yeah, so I so uh I remember we just had this one IEP that was just like wow, just uh you know, blew my mind like what we encountered in that meeting. And there's the interpreter, and she's just interpreting, right? And I'm thinking, oh my gosh, what a cool job to like just be this, you're pretty much just a fly on the wall. Um, you have like you're not that now, now I think about it, it's like it's at the moment I thought her only responsibility is to communicate the message, and she has no responsibility. Like, you know, I'm gonna leave this office and now I have like 10 things to do, and I'm like responsible for this kid graduating and that. And you know, I mean, I carry this huge weight on my shoulders, and this lady's just here, she gets to watch and listen to this whole thing. That is awesome. So I would just remember, like, wow, I wish, you know, I wish I could have that job. Like you just get to be a fly on a while and uh and not be responsible for anything. And uh yeah, I just remember that thought one one on one occasion. And um uh three years ago, um probably four years ago, because uh I I uh I was I was I got it got to a point where I was, I mean, I'll just say it, I was burnt out. I was burnt out from the job, from the profession. It wasn't the same job that I that it was like uh when I started. A lot of things have have changed for a lot of reasons, right? Uh there's just a lot more um mental health um issues that you have to address. Um and I just uh I tell people like um the rewards were no longer outweighing the um, I don't know, how do you say it? Like it wasn't worth the stress, the energy. I was just becoming very cynical. Um I just felt like I just felt like I wasn't like I couldn't contribute anymore, you know, like uh so I I decided I needed to to take a break. And I still loved working, you know, I knew I liked the the serving profession. I liked working, helping people, but I I knew I needed to do something different. And uh so I had decided going into my last school year, I had decided, you know, this is gonna be my last year. Um when this year's over, I'm just gonna um, I knew I was gonna resign. But that's kind of scary, right? Just quitting a job. So I was like, okay, well, I'm gonna resign. And uh I was still still kind of like looking like maybe I can find something else, maybe I can work like at the district office or the county office, or I don't know, maybe there's something else I can do that's more specialized, more focused, still helping and still in education, but you know, not being pulled in all different directions and working at a school site, which is so intense and so stressful. So I did. I I I end I resigned it at the end of the school year. A few years previously, my parents had uh retired and they ended up they retired and they moved back to Guatemala. So I went and visited them pretty frequently, right? Because my parents were, you know, were close family, close family. And so, you know, I went to visit them like for the summer, and then I went like for Christmas, and then I went for Easter, and then uh and then one summer I was there and I I came across this house in their neighborhood where there's a lot of homes, new homes being built. And uh I came across this house and ended up purchasing it just like out of the blue. So uh so I ended up purchasing this home and you know, just left my parents in charge and was like, okay, I bought this house, like I'll send you guys the money, you guys furnish it. And my dad, you know, he took care of everything. He's so sweet. So uh so I had this home there. And uh, so I when I decided to resign from my job, I did kind of have a plan. I was like, okay, I'm gonna resign from my job, I'm gonna spend the summer in Guatemala, I'm gonna continue to apply to jobs um that interest me, right? Not counseling jobs, but you know, I'm gonna look and see if there's something else out there I can do with my experience, my degree, and my skill set. And if I don't, if I find the perfect job, I'll go back and I'll take that job. If I don't, then I'm just gonna take the year off, spend it in Guatemala. I I plan to Airbnb my house. So I was like, I'm gonna plan, I'm gonna teach my dad how to like uh you know host and uh take care of my my Airbnb and uh and yeah, and I'll just kind of figure it out, right? Just take the year off and reset, reevaluate. So I left like three days after school got out. Oh wow. I want to say, yeah, I was packed and ready to go. So throughout the whole summer, there's still like jobs being posted. I had multiple interviews and I had interviews with some jobs that were like, I mean, I was the ideal candidate, I thought. I was like, wow, this is like perfect for me. I have X, Y, and C experience and and uh nothing, Mire. I even had interviews with people I knew were on the interview panel. I had people like reach out to me and say, hey, I think you'd be great for this job. You know, I'll get you on the interview. I mean, I Mireia, I had like 15 years of experience. I'm Spanish speaking, I I'm an accomplished counselor, you know. I I felt I was and nothing. Like I had, yeah, nothing. I didn't get any job offers, not even a job offer that I could decline.
SPEAKER_00:So that I could decline, yeah.
SPEAKER_02:Well, yeah, I was just like, okay, well, then you know, I guess, I guess I'm gonna stay here then. I guess I'm not going back. So yeah, that was September. And uh one of my parents' friends knew that I was that I was living with my parents, and she uh just in conversation with a day, she asked me, like, hey, would you be interested in volunteering? My sister volunteers at a nonprofit hospital in town, and they need bilingual volunteers, right? English speaking volunteers. And uh I started volunteering with with their triages. So the triage is the encounter or the meeting that the doctors have, the surgeons have with their patients before surgery. So at this hospital, they have medical teams from the US and Canada that come to perform surgeries on the less fortunate people in our in the country, right? And so they need they they need interpreters. And so, so that's what I was doing. And because I wasn't working, you know, I was the coordinator loved me because I was like free all the time. So she would call me and I was I was so I got a lot of experience doing that. One day she calls me and she's like, There's a medical team from Canada coming and they need you to go out with them into the field. And I was like, Oh, that's cool. And uh, so this was my first experience actually going out into the community, right? Which was different than them coming to us in a hospital setting, in a clinic. So I'm like, okay, sure, you know. So um, and this with this team, it was at a school site, it was at an elementary school where we were setting up and we served um that community for, I want to say it was like four or five days. And so they paired, I think there was like four or five interpreters, and they paired us up with either a physician, a nurse, or a pharmacist. We had a pharmacist on this team. And I um spent a year going out with medical teams just like this one. And it all kind of was like a ball that started like rolling. And you know, I'm like envisioning it right now. It's like, you know, that little like uh I don't know, what do you call it? Like, you know, the little ball that starts rolling slowly and then it starts picking up speed and picking up speed. Like that's what I felt this year was like. Because on that clinic, I uh one of the interpreters said, Oh, I'm not gonna be here tomorrow because I've got to work. And I'm thinking, like, well, what work? What kind of job do you do? And she's like, Oh, well, I'm an interpreter over the phone. And I was like, wait a minute, you can do this. And I've already been, like I said, I've been interpreting at the hospital now for a few months, I think. And then um, she said, Yeah, I'm an interpreter over the phone. And I was like, Wait, what? You're an interpreter over the phone? Oh, that's cool. And I'm like, Well, I hope this lady comes back to sometime this week so I can like talk to her and find out, like, how do you know what did she do to get this job? How do you do it? And so I did. She came back and then uh, you know, I kept picking her brain. And uh, so again, she kind of uh unofficially became my mentor. She was so sweet, she was so willing to um, you know, guide me and you know, told me like where I could find an interpreter training course, what certification programs there were available for me to test with and be certified with. And so I decided, okay, January, you know, January, I'm gonna start after the new year, I'm gonna enroll in this uh medical interpreter training course, this 40 hour course. And then I'm gonna, you know, I looked into, I decided I was gonna take the um the Qi, the certification for healthcare interpreter exam. So I I earned my certification. But prior Prior to earning my certification, I had already gotten my first interpreting uh job. So I was, you know, so I was really grateful that I got this opportunity with my first language service providing agency. And I loved it. It was, it was like the perfect assignment or the perfect job for my first contract, right? Because the the calls I would get was nurses or healthcare providers doing in-home health assessments. So um I loved it. I was, you know, getting to practice and use the in medical terminology that I had spent so many hours of training and practicing. And uh I really enjoyed it. And uh I think I did that for about a year, but I was starting to get a little bit kind of like bored with uh not not bored, but I felt like I wasn't growing. So I was like, I was I didn't feel like I was growing. And so I started looking for contracts with other um language service providers, and then it just so happened that before I could find a contract with another language service provider, this agency I was working for found out that I was working from Guatemala. Some of these agencies now come to find out you have to be US-based because they have contracts with federal or state agencies that get federal funding. But that was kind of interesting because I had, you know, I had this idea that I was like, well, this is great. I can work remote and I can like travel back and forth. And yeah, I can either like, you know, work here or there, and um maybe live part-time in Guatemala and part-time in in the US, you know, come to find out, like you really have to filter through those companies and those agencies when you're applying. So I decided I was gonna start looking for uh work outside of agencies.
SPEAKER_00:So lesson number one when working as a freelance interpreter um outside of the US is disclose where you live so that there's no um later on, right, any issues with the company. And like you said, with language service providers, uh it just depends on who you're working with. There are language service providers that do open up the opportunities for interpreters abroad, and then there are those, such as your experience, that do not. So really important that if that's something that you're considering or the route that you're wanting to take, that um you inform yourself of which companies allow for that prior to signing any contracts and then end up months later, like you, Heidi, and uh having the company say, actually, we didn't know, or whatever it was.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, so I've I've uh learned so much through this experience, Mira. I um, you know, coming from uh from an education background and you know, primarily working in uh in uh public with the public school system my entire adult life, I never had to apply in this like labor market, right? If you work in in uh education, you know that there's an online platform, EdJoin. I think it's I'm pretty sure I'm not sure if EdJoin is just California or if it's actually I come to find out it is just California.
SPEAKER_00:There are maybe some other parts that sort of dabble in it, but not as consistently as California does. So yeah, you don't get that same luxury in other states, sadly, unless there's something else. But EdJoin seems to be mainly California.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, so EdJoin, I guess, would be like in California, it would be like the, I don't know, LinkedIn for educators. That's what I would say. So I, you know, I working in California with public school system almost my entire adult life, I would just, I was that's all I was familiar with. And working with the public education school system, you know that when when you look for a job, uh everything's posted on there, right? Salary, um, you know, um, they base the the it's the public information, you know, the salaries based on your years of experience and they have that tier system. When I decided to leave public education and going to the world of interpreting, I'm like, oh my gosh, here's like this labor market. When I was thinking about leaving the um leaving my counseling job, you know, I was dabbling in like, well, I was kind of thinking like maybe there's something outside like public schools that I could do. So I had a friend actually who told me, you know, kind of like I had a LinkedIn profile, but I don't think I had even logged into it in like years. And so he kind of helped me um, you know, update my profile, took like a headshot that I could put on my profile. And uh he again, he really mentored me and kind of like helped me navigate like how to look for jobs outside the public school system. So this has been like a huge learning curve for me, aside from like learning the skills that are required for an interpreter. Because, you know, when I left public schools and right, or I decided like, well, this is the type of work I want to do or the field I want to go into it, I didn't go into it thinking I want a full-time job with an agency or something that I go into an office every day, or you know, like I didn't want that nine to five job like I used to have, um, which I think a lot of interpreters, that's what draws them to the work is the freedom, the autonomy, the flexibility. I think the challenge is I also tell people like, I love this job because it gives me flexibility, freedom, it's rewarding and it's challenging, those four things. Yeah, I wasn't looking for like a full-time job, right? So here I'm looking for like, you know, to be like essentially a freelance interpreter, but I'm contracting with agencies, right? Because I think that's kind of going into interpreting. I think that's where it's the easiest kind of jobs to land, right? And uh so I'm grateful for the experience that I got with that that first agency, but again, then you do also do have some restrictions, um, not just in in location, but then also in pay. Like, yeah, so I was so I started, you know, I started looking at the at other agencies that I could potentially contract with. And one of the problems I came across, because I had listed all my experience in Guatemala, right? I spent a year volunteering with medical teams um in Guatemala. And so I had listed all that experience. Um, so some of these agencies would ask me, like, well, are you based in the US or Guatemala? Or some of them would assume I was in Guatemala, and they would offer me Guatemalan rates, which was ridiculous. Like it's for me, as for the type of skills and uh training that you need for that job, I still think it was it doesn't reflect in what they are paying or offering to pay. And then some agencies would say, well, yeah, sure, you can work in Guatemala, but then you know, we're gonna reduce your rate. So you do have to you do have to kind of filter through that. And what while I was volunteering in Guatemala, um, some of the other volunteer interpreters were actual professional interpreters in Guatemala as well. And some of them actually have interpreting degrees, translating and interpreting degrees. When I started coming across these kind of roadblocks, I guess you would say, that weren't giving me so much the the freedom and autonomy that I I I wanted, uh was when I decided, okay, well, um I need to contract directly with clients, right? Essentially it's just like starting my own business, right? And I had all these like questions and like doubts and like fears, like, well, I don't even know how much to charge. But when you ask out there, like, you know, me, I mean, I would say I was naive, but I think it's a fair question to ask when you're new to an industry, right? And you're you think you're in a safe space in a chat or a group with other professionals in that industry or other um colleagues. And I and I would, you know, in different groups or chats, I would put out the question like, how much do you charge? Or, you know, oh, someone is offering me this assignment, like, what would you charge? And I feel like in the interpreting community, that's kind of like taboo. Yeah, people don't really want to say.
SPEAKER_00:I know they won't tell you. So true. Yeah. When you're first starting out, it's like the saddest thing because you're just trying to gauge. There are many professionals that do not disclose, they do not share anything about pay. I don't know what I mean. I'm sure there's lots of topics we can go back and forth with regards to that. But uh yeah, I've experienced many people say the same thing.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, so I was uh so I had, you know, I had this this this desire or this knowledge that I was like, if I'm if I want the the true flexibility and autonomy with this job, then I want then I'm gonna need to contract directly with clients. But I did I had no clue how to do that, where even to start. And then, like I said, I I'm big on LinkedIn and I'm trying to like think back to I don't even know how I came across Corinne McKay, which I also know you've had her on your on your podcast. Somebody had mentioned her on a LinkedIn post, and I looked her up, lo and behold, she had like she has all these different um webinars, right? And different topics. And I was like, this is exactly what I need. Like, and then she came up with a book. I was like, this is exactly what I need. And so then I again I just like started, I I rolled with it, and I'm like, it's doing everything that she's like, you know, the information she provides and the the tips and recommendations. And so so that's where I'm at now. I'm staring away from working with uh these large service providers that I think fulfill a need in the industry, but in a way, I feel like they're doing a disservice to our industry when they hire, they're not very selective about who they hire, right? Like I'm grateful I had my first opportunity with a language service provider who let me on board without having my certification. Although I think you know, having a certification is not the only thing that's gonna make you uh a good qualified interpreter, but I think it is a good is it's an aspect and a portion of it. But I also have interviewed with other language service providers that don't require certifications, and you know, of course I'll present mine, but when it comes to their onboarding and their training, it just doesn't seem very thorough or I didn't, it's not a it's not the most thorough way to identify a qualified interpreter. So so I'm steering away from working with those large agencies and started marketing myself, which is like a whole other world, right? I going back to like having a background working in public education where I've never had to market myself, right? Or I mean, I guess I would, in a sense, you know, speak about my experience and my qualifications. But now going back to like the marketing myself, you know, speaking about my uh my skill set, my qualifications, like why would you want to contract me versus someone else? And then identifying like what areas of interpretation do I want to work in, right? Like, because before when I was feeling a little bit desperate, I'm like, oh, I I'll take them all. Yeah. And uh and I don't like to, and I don't want to do them all. And uh, and I've I found that you know, this is something I do want to share with your um listeners, is that whatever background we come from, I think especially those interpreters that don't come from uh an interpreting only background, if you have a background experience in, you know, uh education and I don't know, auto insurance, um, I don't know, the welding industry, all of that terminology and that background knowledge that you have in your previous life, like I call it now, is a treasure trove. Yeah, exactly. Um, with one of the agencies that I work with, we grew I was taking calls from uh mental health providers. So it could be like a therapist, psychiatrist. And I realized like, wow, like I really I enjoy the calls. I'm really good at them. And I think that's like my um my niche. Your niche. Yeah, because I uh because I have that background, right? As a counselor, I was I was the one helping someone work through those challenging situations that or experiences that they were going through, right? I was the one talking them through it. And so I think when I when I interpret for a mental health provider, I can really like, you know, I can feel it. I can tune in and kind of sync in with the sensitivity that you need for that type of encounter.
SPEAKER_00:Absolutely. The experience and your background is not, it didn't just happen and now it's completely gone, and you'll never you'll never have to bring it back into your present. I think, particularly if you are an interpreter, it it is a treasure trove. It's something that you have an uh expertise in that not many interpreters have. Um, and there's I think space for all of us as interpreters. There's space for interpreters that uh dabble into a little bit of everything. So, you know, they diversify, for example, and have different areas of interest and niches. Uh, and then there are other interpreters that, you know, very, very much narrow it down to one or two specific niches, and they get really, really good at that. And there's also, I think, a level of almost when you're when you're doing something um niching down, uh, there's a level of unlearning uh with it as well, because obviously we have the context and maybe even the direct experience, which can feel um sort of like when while we're in the interpreting role, uh, right? Like we could, if only they would have added this, or maybe we know more than you know, even the individual we're interpreting for. That's the piece of unlearning that as an interpreter we have to do so that we separate ourselves from that role and really focus on the language component and bringing in that experience to truly make that unique experience for for our listeners, for the client or for the provider. But I absolutely agree there is there is a level there of expertise that you bring to the table like no other, just because of your previous experience. So I love that you shared that um with this audience. I also love that you shared that basically based on your story, interpreting literally came knocking at your door to sort of you know bring you in with that, with that individual that came to your parents' house to ask about you and and uh if you would be interested. I think that that right there just comes to show you, you know, just sometimes how things things work out. And when you hear individuals say, like, interpreter, interpreting came to me, you're a prime example of how interpreting literally came to you. You obviously have to still put in the work, you obviously still have to learn many things that, as you mentioned, being in education and being an employee, it's not something that that you just because you're a professional, you know about. So there are different areas that we still have to grow. But I think the beauty of nowadays is that we have the resources and we have so many interpreters out in the field that are sharing their own story, their path, and sharing their own tools on what has helped them. While the conversation of pay still depends on who you talk to, it's still sort of, you know, like a taboo subject. There are many other interpreters, uh, such as the ones that you mentioned in in today's conversation, that are more than willing to go out and share with the community the tools that help them and then give that back so that other interpreters that are entering the field aren't having the same challenges or difficulties and can focus mainly on becoming a better professional and a better individual to show up uh in your day-to-day assignments, not having to be concerned about all of these other things. How am I going to write? Um, not as much or as deep, I guess, as if there weren't any resources. Because sadly, what ends up happening is that we become discouraged if we don't find the resources, even though our heart is tugging for this direction, we could become discouraged as professionals navigating something as complicated as a business of one, right? How do I establish my own business? How do I get started? Your main question was how do I begin having direct contracts and leaving the LSP world behind, which is a huge step, right? It's a huge step. Many interpreters that are freelancers will stay with an LSP and fewer become their own company. And it sounds like that's the direction that you're going, Heidi. And you've had such an incredible trajectory. But before we get uh to the end of our conversation here today, Heidi, what are those three things that you would like to share with this specific audience in terms of what you've learned so far as you've made this pivot from counseling into the world of interpreting, professional interpreting? What are those three things that if somebody were interested in making a career change, right? Where they feel like they've tapped out in their current career, or maybe they've always wanted to do interpreting, but never really thought about it as a career or as a profession that can, I don't know, pay the bills. What are some of those things that you would you would tell them or say to them to help encourage them if this is the direction that they'd like to go?
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, well, um I would say get connected on LinkedIn. Cause I think that's where that's where I found so many of my connections, right? And uh, like I said, I I uh even though I'm Reserved, I love to network. I love to network and I love to uh connect with people. So if I would see someone on LinkedIn who put up a post that I really resonated or really helped me, I would I would message them or I would send them a connection request and you know let them know like, hey, thanks for posting that. It was really helpful. And then from that, it's like the ball starts rolling. That's how I come across like uh different like interpreter training platforms, different um interpreter associations. Definitely like, you know, look at you can, it's so easy to find information now, you know, just Google or as chat GPT, what associations are there out there? I'm I'm just a big LinkedIn fan. You can come across different uh podcasts. Um, but yeah, definitely I would say, you know, get on LinkedIn, network, don't be afraid to connect. There's a lot of people out there who are willing to, you know, mentor you, uh, share information. There's a lot of resources out there, books. I felt totally lost. Like you said, I think you want to say it was like six months ago when I was like, okay, I need to start, you know, steering away from these language service providers and start, you know, finding either better agencies to contract with or direct clients. And I just didn't know how to go about it. And I think really it's just all kind of like God sent and on, you know, and God's timing when kind of like things started just like coming across across my way. And I found, you know, I found Corrine McKay's book and I took some of her webinars and um just little by little kind of things started unfolding. It hasn't been easy. Like it hasn't. I've you know, it's been, I, you know, I I want to say I have three years of experience. One year I spent out in the field in Guatemala interpreting with these nonprofits. Then I spent within that time frame, right, while I was doing that work as a volunteer, I was taking my interpreter training course, then preparing for the CHI, then getting online, searching through um job postings, submitting applications. That all takes a lot of time and energy. And then for these last, I want to say it's been about six months since I found I came across Corinne McKay, and I've really started to market myself as a freelance interpreter. You know, I I redid my LinkedIn profile because I realized I was bragging about myself, but not marketing, right? Which is actually two distinct things. It's two very, very distinct things, you know. Um, identifying my niche, uh, identifying, you know, my sp you know, what do I want to specialize in? What kind of I want to be the go-to interpreter for what kind of industry or what kind of market do I am I looking for? That all it's been like a roller coaster. And it hasn't been easy. I think I have a LinkedIn post where I share about like how exhausting it is. You know, it's almost easier just to log in and interpret all day long than to do some interpreting and then market yourself and all all the things that go into job searching, right? Because I'm marketing, but I'm also essentially looking for work, right? And it can be discouraging, it can be it's exhausting, but I I'm not giving up. I feel like like this is a calling. I get emotional, like I said, but I feel like you know, um you know how they say, like, oh, you know, do a job that you would do for free or something like that, right? I'm not sure how, but it's like, gosh, that that that year I spent volunteering in Guatemala, like, I mean, I was literally doing it for free. Like, and I loved it. Again, it was like showing up to Disneyland. Like, and that's how I feel when I get uh a medical interpreting assignment because I'm still contracting with agencies that not all my assignments are medical based. And and I still enjoy it. I enjoy like being able to help uh bridge that communication between two people, right? But when I get an interpreting assignment or a mental health assignment, it's like wow, I'm in the zone, you know, and I need to make a living. I need, you know, there's bills I gotta pay. So if I can uh, you know, get compensated, get paid for this, like it's just it doesn't really feel like work, right? Yeah, there's uh yeah, so it's um I want to say I'm a starving interpreter, you know, like a starving artist. I'm not at the, you know, I'm not at the um my uh my income goal that I that I have for myself, but I'm working towards it and I feel like I've made huge strides in, I mean, really it's two years, right? Three years just where I was like in it and just you know enjoying the work, and then two years where I'm like, okay, this is something this is something that I want to make a living from. This is something that I want to pursue as a career and as a profession.
SPEAKER_00:Um it's time to grind.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. I think so. Several things here um that I heard in the messaging that's coming through what you're sharing, Heidi, is absolutely it's it's a good reminder for all of us. You know, we first have to be able to um do what we need to do before we're able to get the things that we want, right? So um we work at at the things that are needed. And in this case, you're in that, you're planting seeds currently, yes. So going back to your uh agriculture or uh what was it? Um the year culture background, right? You're planting the seeds right now, um, which that in itself is is work, right? You're you're you're doing everything in order for your garden to grow. Uh and coming from that background, even that is coming into play, right? If we look in it, look at it metaphorically speaking, even that's coming into into your present, into your work. You're planting the seeds, you know, you're taking care of that of that space uh before we actually start to see the fruit of our labor. And it does take time. I think anything that is worth the while is supposed to take time to be able to be nurtured and developed in a way in which we'd like to see it. And in this being your case, not just your chosen profession uh at this point in your life, but also, you know, that you're coming at it from an angle of your um your own business, right? So now it's two two two different things sort of colliding and and wanting to make it something more than how you originally envisioned the work. Um, it speaks volumes. And so you're putting in that work. And I think that that's the piece that we all need to be reminded of um at times, because it it does feel difficult and it feels um at times discouraging, and we're not sure where the next project is going to come from, if it's going to come soon enough. So we we have to look at it, the big picture, right? Where is that angle? What am I seeing? What's my vision? I think that's really the piece that keeps us going, is knowing that I know where where I want to get to. And so what do I have to do to make that happen? And in the meantime, we do what we need to do. Which in your case, like you said, you continue to work with LSPs now that you've identified as those that you can contract with, you can collaborate with now. You did your part as a trained professional interpreter, which was get yourself certified. You went through that process, you have your certification. That means you put in the time, you put in the money, you put in the work, and now you're able to align yourself with those companies that you wish to align yourself until you're able to get to being, you know, your own company and having those direct contracts. And I think those are the lessons that I learned in our conversation. And I hope that's some of the lessons that our audience, in addition to others, and hearing your story on Brand the Interpreter, what they've learned throughout our conversation. Before we wrap up today's conversation, Heidi, is there anything else that you would like to mention to this specific audience?
SPEAKER_02:I think I've touched it all. I think I've touched on it all. I just want to thank you for this opportunity. And I really hope that I've been an inspiration and help. I know that that listening to your podcast, that's what I've gotten out of it from hearing other people's stories. It's what's helped keep me motivated when I'm feeling, I'm just feeling like, yeah, discouraged. And then I listen to a story that I can relate to or resonates with me. And I and it just keeps me going. So if anybody out there has any questions or wants to reach out, I'm happy to be a mentor. I'm happy to answer any questions. So yeah, reach out to me. You can find me on LinkedIn. Yeah, you can find me on LinkedIn. Um, my LinkedIn profile has my contact information. So it has my email, my phone number. So now please you can text me, email me, send me a LinkedIn message. I'd be happy to connect.
SPEAKER_00:Well, you continue to be an architect, I think, except now in the interpreting world in your own profession, Heidi, even though you know that was many years ago in terms of, you know, the um the landscape architect that you thought about. Now you're you're doing it for your own career. And so I appreciate you taking the time to walk us through what has been your journey so far. And I wish you only growth from this point forward and being able to continue expanding in the profession so that you are able to contribute to the many, many people out there that still need our support and they still continue to rely on human interpreters, especially those with you know very specific knowledge. So I thank you for being here today. And I'm so happy that I get the opportunity to share your story.
SPEAKER_02:Thank you, Mireia. It was fun.
