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Brand the Interpreter
What if La Malinche—the Indigenous woman who famously served as interpreter and advisor to Hernán Cortés during the Spanish conquest of Mexico—could share her stories? Imagine the insights and experiences she could offer about the power of language and navigating the complexities of two worlds. That’s the spirit behind the Brand the Interpreter Podcast!
Hosted by Mireya Pérez, an interpreter and personal brand advocate, this podcast gives today’s interpreters a platform to share their own fascinating stories, challenges, and triumphs. Each episode pulls back the curtain on the world of interpreting, from navigating high-stakes conversations to facilitating cross-cultural understanding, offering listeners a glimpse into the lives of the professionals who bring meaning across languages.
Whether you’re an interpreter, a bilingual professional, or simply curious about the magic that happens behind the scenes, Brand the Interpreter immerses you in the stories of language professionals making an impact every day. It’s more than just a podcast—it’s a celebration of language, connection, and the vital human element that makes communication possible.
Join us to explore how the power of language, driven by human connection, shapes understanding, opens new worlds, and transforms perspectives, revealing the deeper truths that unite us all.
Brand the Interpreter
Listen Silently: The Inner World of an Interpreter with Ryohei Onishi
What does it truly mean to be an interpreter in the deepest sense? Is it merely transferring words between languages, or something far more profound?
Ryohei Onishi, returning guest and two-time TEDx speaker from Japan, takes us on a transformative journey through the evolution of his understanding of interpretation. Five years after his first talk on "de-verbalization," Ryohei's perspective has deepened into something more spiritual – what it means to truly become "the voice of others."
The catalyst for this shift came from three simple words spoken by a client: "Be my voice." This command fundamentally changed how Ryohei approached his craft, moving beyond technical skill to a deeper embodiment of the speaker's intentions, emotions, and essence. He shares the mysterious "sync" moments that occur between interpreters and speakers, when the boundaries between them seem to dissolve.
The conversation explores the profound silence required for genuine listening, with Ryohei noting poetically that "listen" contains the same letters as "silent." This active silence allows interpreters to fully receive another's message by quieting their own internal dialogue. We hear about the emotional weight of interpreting difficult content, like discussions of war, and the intentional "unplugging" required afterward.
Perhaps most fascinating is Ryohei's perspective on interpreting in the AI age. He observes that we've moved from a world with two options (interpretation available or not) to one where some form of translation is always available – the question now is whether to choose machine or human interpretation. Rather than competing with AI on speed, Ryohei chooses to emphasize his humanity: "I'm the pilot, not the passenger."
For anyone curious about what lies beyond words, beyond terminology, and beyond the technical aspects of communication, this episode offers a rare glimpse into the soul of interpretation. Join us to discover why, in Ryohei's words, "interpreting is not just the art of language, it's also the art of life."
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Deverbalization - 1st TEDx talk
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Welcome back to another episode of the Brand the Interpreter podcast. This is Mireya, your host. To all returning listeners, thank you for joining me again and if this is your first time tuning in, welcome. I am so glad you're here. So I want to begin today's episode by asking you some questions to think about as you are listening to today's episode. I want you to think about what it really means for you to be an interpreter. Is it simply transferring words from one language to another, or is it something more, something deeper, more human, or perhaps something that doesn't just connect us to others but quietly reshapes us too? In today's episode of Brand the Interpreter, we welcome back a returning guest, ryohei Onishi, interpreter, educator and TEDx speaker from Japan, whose evolving journey invites us to rethink the soul of this profession.
Speaker 1:Five years after his first TEDx talk on de-verbalization, ryohei returned to the TEDx Kobe stage in 2024 with a new message being the voice of others. But what does that really mean? What does it take to fully step into someone else's thoughts, emotions and intentions, especially when the message is raw? Interpreting war, the mysterious sync moments between interpreter and speaker, and why silencing your inner voice might just be the most powerful listening tool we have. We also explore what it means to be a human interpreter in a world now saturated with AI, and how our value isn't found in speed but in presence. Throughout our conversation, you'll hear that Ryoji offers more than insight. He offers perspective rooted in empathy, intentionality and love for the art of communication.
Speaker 1:So if you've ever wondered what lies beyond the words, beyond the terminology, the moments we don't often speak about, the things maybe we just think about or things that go unheard of, this episode is for you. We're not just talking about the profession, we're sharing our stories. So if this is the type of stuff that you'd like to hear about with regards to our profession, then you have found your home. This is the Brand the Interpreter podcast, where I share your stories about our profession. Let's dive in Rioje. Welcome to the show. I'm so glad to have you back. Welcome back.
Speaker 2:Yeah, thank you very much for your invitation. Muchas gracias por invitarme, pero no sé nada más en español. Does that make?
Speaker 1:sense. It makes perfect sense actually. So thank you so much Thank you so much.
Speaker 2:Thank you so much.
Speaker 1:It's always a pleasure to be able to have past guests come back and share with us where they've been and what different things have happened in between, and the amazing thing about it, at least for me, it's that it's been a whole three years since you were last here, so that's amazing. And for those of you that are listening and did listen to Ryohei's past episode, he joins us all the way from Japan.
Speaker 2:Yep, do you know Japan?
Speaker 1:I wish I knew Japan. I wish Actually my son. I have a younger son that is always saying that when he gets older he's going to move to Japan.
Speaker 2:We're always welcome yeah.
Speaker 1:So, yeah, maybe fast future, a few years, once he gets older, he'll invite me to come over.
Speaker 2:if that's in fact what happens, I'll let you know yeah, sure, and I will start to speak and try to study more spanish language as well well, talk to us real here about what's been going on.
Speaker 1:I know that the last time you were here, you did share that you had been on TEDx, and so we talked and did a deep dive on that particular experience for you and, of course, your experience as a language professional all the way from the other side of the world. But talk to us what has been happening since then and then share with us the fact that you actually were invited to come back to TEDx and you gave another conversation about interpreting. So catch us up.
Speaker 2:Yeah, sure, thank you so much for the introduction. I came back to TEDx Kobe 2024. Last time it was 2019. So I came back after five years, but it happened after a long process of the audition and the rehearsals and the selection and all that. So it was not like a straight process, but then I was really able to come back with different ideas about what interpreting is. I think last time, back in 2019, I talked about de-verbalization. That was a very fresh idea for me, but this time I had to talk about something else, about what interpreting does to people, and this time we really focused on being the voice of others. That's the kind of phrase which came out after a long process of consideration and a conversation with other people.
Speaker 1:Yeah, For the audience that hasn't had the opportunity to listen to your episode which, by the way, after today's episode, I hope you go back and find Rio Hay's episode. I'm going to link in the episode notes but just briefly explain what de-verbalization concept is about, and then we'll get into the other, tedx episode.
Speaker 2:Yep, sure, like de-verbalization is in a way a paradoxical concept for interpreting, because interpreters are basically verbalizing. So we think that we're always verbalizing what other people are saying. But actually we first try to de-verbalize what people are saying and get out of the world of language and get into the world of meaning and then we really get and understand what the people are saying and come back to the world of language and say what the speaker was saying in a different language.
Speaker 2:So that's the process that we are going through, especially in simultaneous interpreting. I believe that was the concept which I tried to introduce in the TEDxCOVID-19, 2019 talk. I hope it makes sense by explaining this way.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and, like I said, I'm definitely going to include that episode in the episode notes, that link, but of course also the information that you can go back to his TEDx talk then where he explains that so that you could sort of get a good grasp of it. And I think what I really like about what happened, ryohei, is that you first introduced this topic to that particular audience in a very, shall we say, scientific way so that they meaning the audience, the general audience can understand sort of that, that scientific process of the brain of the interpreter and what is occurring sort of in the background. So I often say it's not an input output process, there's actually something going on right in the brain with an interpreter. But what I also like is that now you've come back to humanize the profession, meaning you've created something, a conversation with a general audience about the human aspect of interpreting. So let's talk about that a little bit more and share with this audience what it is that you brought to the conversation.
Speaker 2:Yeah, thank you so much for that question. For this 2024 TEDx talk, I had to face one difference from the last time, which is that, although in 2019, we did have simultaneous interpretation of my talk into Japanese language, but this time we didn't. So I had to really make sure that by speaking in English, then the participants could understand without the simultaneous interpretation device. So it seems like the conference hall for that TEDxCOBE conference in 2024 didn't allow the technical equipment for simultaneous interpreting. That was the kind of environmental condition that I had to kind of meet.
Speaker 2:So then I thought about this like, hey, okay, if I'm an interpreter, but if we cannot use the interpreting function, then what can I do? Maybe I had to change the way I talk about the idea. So when I say the voice of others, it's really about becoming the voice of the speaker. For example, if you're interpreting for a president, you have to feel like the president, you have to speak like the president, and this is something that I call personalization, or something that I used to call personalization. But then, when I was working with the TEDxCOBE speaker team, I called this team Team Ryohei, by the way, and the team members said like this team, Team Ryohei, by the way, and the team members said like, okay, what is personalization?
Speaker 2:I couldn't really understand that word. So I had to really go deeper and made it really really simple by saying, oh, not personalization, but internalization, does that make sense? And then the team member said no. Then I had to come back again and I said voice of others and they said like, okay, that makes sense. Yeah, so I had to really make it easy. But then, by making it really easy, the word of interpreting really went into the minds of those participants. So I think that's another version of my TEDx talk experience, like interpreters talking about interpreting without simultaneous interpretation. That's kind of paradoxical, but in this way I was able to make it really successful this time.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and it almost feels like you actually became the speaker, which you were right, the speaker, which you were right, but in this case it's like you were the individual that was trying to get across your thoughts, your original thoughts and feelings about your subject to an audience that spoke a different language. And so now, right, you're sort of de-verbalizing your own information in order for it to connect to your audience. I like this notion of when you are someone's voice, you feel what they feel and you speak the way they speak. What do you say is the actual process to that for an interpreter if there is a process, Because I almost feel like it isn't just about showing up as a trained interpreter and by magic it happens what do you think is the actual process in order for that synchronization, if you will, to occur?
Speaker 2:Right? That's a great question, and I think if we try to make a comparison between just merely speaking a foreign language to interpreting, I think the contrast is much clearer. I think, for example, when we are learning a foreign language like English, then we try to speak English better. So you want to talk about yourself, right? So you focus on. So you want to talk about yourself, right, so you focus on yourself. I want to talk about this, talk about this, so you focus on yourself. But then when you start doing interpretation, actually for me I had a very hard time understanding others, because in the world of interpreting, you never talk about yourself. You have to talk about others. You have to stop talking about yourself and you have to really listen and it's really a great thing for me to learn that the word listen is spelled differently and you get silent, right, listen and silence. So that really totally makes sense for the interpreters. In order to do a better interpretation, you have to really be silent and listen, and that's for me, the way to be the voice of others.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I like that Listen silently, right, it's something of the sort.
Speaker 1:So it's like you have to turn off that internal dialogue. I suppose that would be one of the processes to really be able to take in the delivery of the person that you're interpreting. For I often feel like, whenever that does occur particularly, I think it happens more for me the experience I'm referring to when I'm doing a simultaneous interpretation more so than a consecutive, in a dialogue setting I feel that when I'm experiencing that it occurs during a simultaneous interpretation and it doesn't occur with every speaker, and I've never really stopped or have paused to think about why I sync with particular individuals and why I don't with others. But I can tell you that from my experience I definitely feel that the message is conveyed as close to its original when I do have that sync moment I call it sync moment because I've actually expressed that to others where I feel like I synced with the speaker, I know where they're going, I understand the essence of the message and so I'm able to interpret it in that way, but it doesn't happen with every speaker.
Speaker 2:Oh yeah, it's a very difficult question Because I do feel that I'm synchronizing in your definition and for me it's being the voice of others and it's hard to be the voice of everyone because sometimes it's difficult to really download the people's voice, sometimes because of the difference in the way they think. For example, I did interpretation for the United Nations University director or Paris Saint-Germain you know, soccer ball players and I didn't play soccer ball, so I had to start like, hey, what is soccer ball, how do they work? And then it had to come with a very good amount of downloading about what soccer players do. And I also did the press conference interpretation of an NBA basketball coach. I didn't play basketball at all, so I had to start really like, hey, how does basketball work? And and so this kind of downloading. But then, regardless of the occupation or the work that they do, as long as I am able to download the voice of others, I was able to be them, be like them. It was really strange but really and mysterious experience, in my opinion, to be really able to feel like what they're saying.
Speaker 2:And I felt really heavy when I was interpreting about Ukrainian war and that was the kind of seminar about the Japan's self-defense force. I had a one-day seminar with them and then they were talking about the death toll or the soldiers dying on the battlefield in Russia or Ukraine, and interpreting about this seminar really made me heavy, and then that was really difficult for me to get out of that voice of others. So sometimes I can download, and if you over-download it's hard to get away from it. So I had to kind of go away, shut down my PC and then take a walk for just 15 minutes for me to kind of decentralize the voice of others and stuff like that. Does that make sense?
Speaker 1:Oh, totally. I think that that's something that we've spoken about, at least in the show on previous episodes with other individuals that have talked about interpreting for situations that you know have have this impact at the moment, and just the trying to disconnect after has to be very intentional. It's not something that automatically happens. You know, to sort of follow the word choice here, we have to unplug from that download in order to be able to make that disconnect. But it has to happen so intentionally because it doesn't automatically happen.
Speaker 1:So this is where we've talked about also in the past year about that self-care as an interpreter, because we have to sort of make it that habit. Yes, when we do our work. I want to, I want to continue talking about this be my voice topic because I feel like there's so many different angles that we can go right and deep dive on it. I often find that especially, I think, for the newer interpreter that hasn't yet hit that piece or that moment in which they really make a connection with this description for seasoned interpreters about becoming someone's voice, in the beginning it feels like being someone's voice is speaking for them. So how would we differentiate being someone's voice from speaking on their behalf?
Speaker 2:someone's voice from speaking on their behalf. Right, it's also a very difficult or and a great question as well. But when I think about interpreters, there are at least two different types of interpreters. One is the interpreter that translates the words or languages, and another one is the interpreter that translates the meaning of the speakers. So, and I try to be the the latter one, um, I want to be the person who can talk, who can translate the meaning of what they're saying.
Speaker 2:And then when I teach um students about samaritani interpreting especially, they first try to go after every single word that the Japanese people say, and then they run out of time and they speak too much and they don't know how to omit the words and they forget to listen. Once again, the silent and listen, they forget to listen. They just are too much preoccupied with just speaking or just consuming whatever sound they're hearing. And I say no, that's not what interpreting is. Interpreting is not just spitting out every single word that the speaker is saying. It's about really understanding the meaning. And interpreting really enriches your life. That's what I'm telling the students. And then they begin to understand, like, okay, interpreting. They thought interpreting is just like the extension of learning of foreign languages. But that's not exactly true. Learning interpreting is living a life itself. For me, interpreting is a way of life, so that's why I want them to also understand that interpreting is not just the art of language, it's also the art of life as well, if I can put it this way.
Speaker 1:That's beautiful actually, and I think that, again, when somebody is going through training or through studies of this profession, ultimately, whether that be during the program or after, in practice, perhaps that connection, hopefully that connection is actually made, because you know, one thing is in theory and another thing is in practice. Right, how do we make that connection of it's not just about the words, it's about the meaning, once we begin actually interpreting for individuals, particularly individuals, I feel that speak freely. It's about the meaning Once we begin actually interpreting for individuals, particularly individuals, I feel that speak freely. So it's like this bi-directional communication. It's like we have to learn to listen silently, like you've mentioned, to be able to make that connection.
Speaker 1:But I also feel like there's this sort of gap, sometimes not just with students, but generally speaking. So what I loved about your talk is that you were speaking to a general audience. You brought the message to an audience that doesn't have that background in interpreting, that doesn't have that background in interpreting. So talk to us more about how you introduced the profession in a way that humanizes the profession, that was understood by a general audience, because when I see the camera pan out, I see a lot of nods, so there's a lot of individuals that are making a connection with your message. Share with this audience what that was about.
Speaker 2:Yeah, the interaction with the audience where the participants in TEDx terms was quite amazing for me, I thought. First of all, I thought that when I speak in English although I spoke very slow, but then the participants may not understand everything that I say, but they did understand it and that was a positive surprise. And then I wanted to make this message broader, as broad as possible, so that they are able to cancel their misunderstanding about this occupation called interpreting. So when they hear the word interpreting or interpreters, they think like, oh, you are the language master, you know everything about English or Spanish, whatever. But then that's not the case. We're always on the development phase, like we're always learning about new things, about foreign languages.
Speaker 2:And some people think like we're just magicians, but then we're not like that, we're just humans. We're also trying to be the voice of others. We're learning, we're always studying stuff like that. So I just wanted to change their misconception about who interpreters are by making it extremely simple, like be the voice of others.
Speaker 2:And then this act of interpreting itself can also be applied to their lives as well, whether they are playing guitars, for example, if you're playing the Beatles, you also feel like the Beatles, like let it be, let it be. You know you feel that, right, it's not like you just play the song, but you also feel like how they felt. It's also the same as like painting a picture. If you're painting a picture of the scenery you're looking at, you also feel like, hey, that guy seemed like really sad, what's going on with him? Or you are also like being the voice of the person being painted. Um, so my point of making that talk extremely, as broad as possible is that I wanted, uh, people or the participants, to link interpreting to their lives as well. So there is always something that's really in common with the interpreting world and their world as well. Yeah, does that make sense?
Speaker 1:Yes, completely. I often feel like there's so many different ways that we can explain the profession and every time someone from the industry takes the opportunity to talk about the profession to a general audience, it's always exciting, just because it's explained in different ways so that it hopefully catches the attention of that particular audience and their understanding right of what the interpreting profession actually is. I definitely noticed that and hopefully those individuals took with them that it is definitely more than an extension of learning a foreign language. It goes so much deeper than that. You shared a story in your talk, rioje, about when the individual said be my voice.
Speaker 2:Share that story with this audience, if you will, please 10 years ago, back in 2014, when I was working for an Australian manager called Wayne Miller he is my best friend right now and then I was his interpreter back then and he, I think, he knew how to use interpreters. So the first day I met him, he said like I'm your boss and you're my voice, so you have to be my voice, ryohei. And that really changed my life. Like, okay, I was just a language user I had a good command of language at the time as well and I was just be my voice. But he said be my voice. Like I had to be his voice, right, I had to stop talking about myself and I had to start to listen. I had to be the voice, right, I had to stop talking about myself and I had to start to listen. I had to be the voice of Wayne Miller. So that short three words like be my voice totally changed my life, and that has changed my life to this day as well.
Speaker 1:It's like it turned on a switch right All of a sudden. Yeah, you became synced with that individual, and again I use that word sync only because I can't think of anything else that necessarily for me, mentally, visually, makes that connection and we sort of have to become one with the speaker. So that's why I keep using that word sync. But I feel that if individuals, a general audience that works with interpreters, understood the actual work, perhaps that would also be the messaging and the understanding of people when they work with interpreter. Yes, it would be hey, this person needs to be my voice, and so, if they're going to be my voice, they need to understand, maybe, the context, and so we more easily receive information prior to an assignment, as opposed to the questioning behind why does the interpreter need material? What have you found throughout these last few years, ryohei? That, whether it be through your students or through the work that you do with regards to our profession, and particularly with technology nowadays, what have you come across?
Speaker 2:Yeah, thank you for that question. It's a great question. I started teaching university students three years ago and then this has been a great opportunity for me to really look back on what I'm doing, how I can really contribute to the future generation of Japan through interpreting. And then I also started to define my class as user education time, because they're going to be graduating from the university and they are able to use English very well, so they will be most likely be working in global companies, and global companies meaning they will be using interpreters.
Speaker 2:So they will come back to me and say like, hey, rohei, are you available this day, with that day? And then that for me, it's a time I will say like, yes, i'm'm available, but you remember my class, you know how to use interpreters. Now, right, don't use me, don't, don't abuse me. You, you just have to use me, right? That's what I would say if they ask me that question. But so for me, really teaching them how to interpret is also about teaching them how to use interpreters. So user education is so important because they are going to be the main generation in the future and if they know how to use interpreters, they can also make international business, global business more successful, right? So from that viewpoint as well, like teaching and going to the class every Monday morning is just way more than just teaching 90 minutes. It's more about nurturing the future generation of Japan. That's how I define my job on every Monday morning.
Speaker 1:I love that. That's lovely, I think I often think about when we are training others on how to work with interpreters, whether that's the interpreters themselves, potential interpreters or other individuals. I often think of them as brand ambassadors. So you've got people that are out there promoting the brand right. When you talk about it in that context, I think of them as that brand ambassadors, because they know how to work with an interpreter, they understand the intricacies of interpreting because you're teaching them now, and so they're able to help promote the profession in a way that's different from somebody that doesn't understand what it actually is. So, yeah, in my mind I usually call them well, these are the brand ambassadors. You are an extension of the profession now, because now that you know better, hopefully you do better. Yeah, I really like the word, yeah, a brand ambassador.
Speaker 2:So they're all ambassadors. So I need to really tell the right message and they also need to get the right understanding of what interpreters are doing and how hard interpreting could be. So that's why I don't really try to evaluate whether their interpreting is really accurate or not, like hey, that was a great interpreting or that was not a great interpreting. I try not to jazz that way, because in this way you are just expecting the unexpected. So you can't expect them, like students who are just still studying English, to interpret just like professionals do. And yeah, so, and not so many people are going to be a professional interpreter, indeed, after they graduate. So what I can really contribute to in the future for them is for them to really understand the occupation, the art of interpreting, so that when they know how hard it is, they also would be able to be kind to the future interpreters, and that also makes a really better ecosystem for the interpreting world as well, right? So that's why I don't say, like it took one minute for you to interpret this one single line. How come? No, no, I wouldn't really say that. I would just say like, okay, it's okay, that's interpreting. You learned how hard interpreting is. That's the lesson for you today. You did a great job. That's what I would say.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Oh, I like that. That's so great. I think that you're absolutely right. Not everyone necessarily that goes through that training. That might be their intention in the beginning, but maybe they realize, like many other professions, not just with interpreting that this is not actually what they want to do. But now they have a deeper understanding about the profession and they can go out there and help advocate for the right setting for an interpreter.
Speaker 1:For example I know that we in this show we've talked about it a couple of times where there's a researcher, an interpreter researcher by the name of Dr Sofia Garcia-Bayer, and she coined this term communicative autonomy, right, and it's like this mouthful for what basically she describes as the essence of an interpreter, in which the interpreter allows for the right environment for individuals to be responsible for and in control of their own communication. And I know that when I first heard that, I suddenly realized what interpreting was all about. In the beginning it was just, you know, a plug and play. Basically, I learned my strategies, my techniques, I would show up to my assignment, I would interpret and you know, every assignment was that way. But when I came across this term, I realized there is so much more, it's so much deeper than what we're actually, even as an interpreter, sometimes that we're actually making a connection with. How do you see that, in combination with being my voice as far as an interpreter, internalizing what their true essence is?
Speaker 2:Right, if I understand this correctly, having the right environment to be able to do the job or to be able to take the responsibility as an interpreter is so crucial. It's so crucial All the more because we're now interpreting more often online than before. Then having the right environment is something that we have to really advocate to the users or customers, because they cannot see us so easily because of the online communication. That's one thing, and then another thing is that we interpreters have to know what the right environment is for us Like. If we are missing this condition, that condition, that condition, then we wouldn't be able to really take responsibility as an interpreter. So we have to really sacrifice and compromise the quality of interpreting and then I'll be really honest with that to the customer, sometimes any information or agenda or any keywords shared with us right before the meeting, until right before the meeting, then I I'm not a god, I'm not a magician, right, so I would say I wouldn't be able to take responsibility. I would just say whatever they hear. So I'll be the type one interpreter, the interpreter that just translates the language.
Speaker 2:Um, I'm not really satisfied with that, but then that also in a sense exemplifies the fact that if the right environment is not there or is missing, then the whole thing about interpreting or the whole conversation uh, bilingually is going to collapse. So that's what I, in a sense, indirectly want to tell the, the customers or the clients, so that they also think like oh, I made a mistake because I made the wrong choice about creating the conditions for interpreters. That's why that meeting collapsed or failed. Next time I have to do it differently. That's kind of user education that I want to do through my job. Yeah, does that make sense?
Speaker 1:Completely and, speaking of first type, which we mentioned, was the interpreter that is, focusing more on the words as opposed to the meaning. Yes, we often think about experiences, as a language professional, that help shape our understanding of our own profession or that help shape ourselves as the professional. You talked about the story of the individual that said be my voice, which sort of turned on the switch for you. You know, there's those experiences in which, as interpreters, we suddenly feel like, wow, maybe I'm not as good as I thought or maybe I need to question this a little bit more. Was there ever a moment for you like that while interpreting, whether it be a speaker or a subject, in which you felt all the training that you have and experiences wasn't enough?
Speaker 2:all the training that you have and experiences wasn't enough. Yeah, I do come across this kind of experiences and that is quite evident when it comes to the in-house interpreting or business setting interpretation, and they're dealing with terms that only they use inside of one particular company and that's not, of course, on the internet, so you can't really check it. And even though it's on the internet, they don't tell us about that right before the meeting. So those are the cases that interpreting seems to become more challenging because of the really closed range or scope of the words being used in that kind of setting. But when it comes to forums or symposiums or different types of webinars or seminars, they are talking about something that is partially searchable on the internet, so we can get those pieces of information and this means that interpreters can also learn by preparing for interpreting and they can do a better interpretation.
Speaker 2:So confidentiality could be one condition that will really change the fate or the success or failure of interpreting. I would say yeah, and I do understand that they can't disclose all the information because that's confidential, but then at the same time this also affects in a sense, the quality of interpreting as well. So I'm still thinking or searching for a better way to satisfy myself and satisfying clients with the in-house or the in-company interpreting environments. I know that confidentiality is quite a high barrier, but I'm just hoping that someday, you know, we can try to get away from this kind of difficulty.
Speaker 1:One of the things that I really appreciate about being able to have conversations with language professionals from around the world is sort of seeing the changes in the industry and similarities as well between you know other parts of the world and here in the States, and of course, here we've been having a lot of conversation with regards to AI and what that's doing in the industry. What is Japan seeing in the language industry profession with AI? If anything, what are those insights that you've come across that you could share with this audience? That's pretty US-based.
Speaker 2:Yeah, thank you. Yeah, maybe most of the things happening in Japan are the same as what's happening in the US as well, but I would say that the situation has changed, totally changed, with the advent of AI. Nowadays I think prior to AI times, we were living in a world where there were only two situations Situation one where there is no interpretation provided, and there is a situation where interpreting is provided. So it's like zero or a hundred, right, zero or a hundred. But then right now we're living in a world where interpreting or translation of some form is provided a hundred percent, like it's not a human interpreter, but machine translation is available. So the automatic subtitling will be available on the screen, even though you're joining Microsoft Teams or Zoom or whatever it is, so you are able to see the translation or at least see the subtitles of what the people speaking in English are talking about, so they're able to see that or they're able to kind of understand what's going on.
Speaker 2:But then in this second world, then the choice would be do you want to go to machine translation or human interpretation? So it's 100% and 100%. There is no choice for no interpretation, no translation provided. There is something already provided, right, then people are left with two choices machine translation or AI translation, or human translation. Which one would you want to choose, and would you want to pay for human interpretation or not? So it was not the matter of necessity. It is now the matter of choice. That's the world we're living in, at least in Japan. I'm not sure about how the things are working in the US, but yeah, that's how I take it.
Speaker 1:I think in a sense it's basically the same right, and perhaps even worldwide it would be. And the concern is always that that other choice has variable factors, meaning the use of technology. Number one right the understanding of the technology itself. Usually, I imagine, there's this lag time between the general audience and the understanding of the technology. Well, first, I think, the acceptance of the technology, because not, let's face it, not everyone, not everyone trusts technology. So just having that acceptance perhaps first, and then being able to learn how to use it.
Speaker 1:But I think the conversations that we've been seeing thus far as well around this topic is the cost, which is, I mean, that's not anything new. We could all agree that cost is always a driver for decision-making in many of the organizations that we interpret for. But obviously the cost of the technology in this case would definitely be something that is a decision-making factor because it's more affordable. I suppose you can say so, while I love this notion that you just talked about, it went from either zero right, no service, to full service, 100%. There is no zero capability now because of the technology, and that piece is great.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's a great thing. Yeah, it's a universalization of interpreting service? Yeah, then we are now faced with a different question. As an interpreter, what is the added value can you provide? Right? I think that's the new question that the interpreters of the 2025 are faced with.
Speaker 1:Yeah, oh, I like that. So what is your added value as an interpreter in this era of AI? A dramatic pause for interpreters to ponder. I mean, it's not that it's necessarily been something different, right, in terms of, hey, we have to learn to differentiate ourselves as interpreters in the language industry by, I don't know, maybe specializing in something or having a niche, or something of the sort. So I think that concept, you know we've had around in a while, but now there's a new, you know a new player right in the game, and this one is a little bit different. So I think that the conversations are always centered around AI nowadays, it feels like. So I wanted to get a feel, for you know, what's happening out in the world, out in Japan.
Speaker 2:What's happening out in the world, out in Japan. For when I teach English reading classes, then even though they're given English reading assignment, they first go to DPL or Google Machine Translation and they get the Japanese translation first. They read it first and then, if they don't understand what's written, even with that Japanese translation, they first, then they go to English. So it's totally the other way around compared to 30 years ago when I was studying English. Right, yeah, that's one thing, but then another thing is when I see other interpreters in Japan working, they are also working in different styles. Some of them do use machine translation of the presentations or presentation slides into Japanese. So they read out the machine translation Japanese version for interpretation, like simultaneously. And then when I saw that, what I felt is like, okay, they are working with the AI, that's good, that's good, yeah.
Speaker 2:But then I wanted to avoid being that kind of interpreting. On the other hand, I wanted to be myself. I wanted to do interpreting in my own way. They can help us. I mean, ai can help us do it, but AI is not going to do it for me, I just want to do it myself. Ai can maybe help us with the certain translation of a technical term that I don't know, but then they're not going to dictate my job.
Speaker 2:That was my kind of the thinking back then when I saw other interpreters doing the job. So I don't know if it makes sense in the context of the US, but I just want it to be human and when a lot of interpreters are looking like AI translators, I want to be a human interpreter by not looking at AI. So it's like when you watch TV, you behave like a TV celebrity, right, but then when you don't watch TV, you don't know what the celebrities are doing. Just like that. If you're watching AI, then you translate just like AI, but I don't watch, I don't see AI, so I don't know how AI behaves. Maybe that could be the differentiator for my interpretation.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yes, I like that. So it's the natural versus the. I don't know the machine, right, and I do know what you're talking about, because I think at one point somebody had mentioned the integration of AI as it's captioning the speech and the interpreter is somehow. You know, that was a complicated part for me is that the interpreter is also basing their interpretation on that particular dictation. But I'm thinking, are we now the voice of the machine or are we the voice of the speaker? Yeah, because it's the words, but I just and I don't know if they are using the machine in the other language or if they're using it in the source language. But anyway, my thought was just like that.
Speaker 1:That is some heavy split attention skills first of all, reading the content and listening to the speaker. And how do we ensure that the words that are written by machine is accurate to what the speaker is saying? I and I say that because I remember one time I turned them on to sort of get a feel and I realized you know the the. The text on the screen said something about um evil, or it was like. It was just a word that sounded like whatever the speaker said, but it was so out of context and it just threw my brain for a loop so I was like, nope, this is not for me, not yet at least yeah, yeah, yeah, I 100% get it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, uh, in the case of japanese language, if I may comment on that, um, it does have a problem like uh. In japanese language, we do have a lot of words that sound the same but they mean totally differently, for example, one example is ame, that means rain and candy. So rain and candy. If you mistake it, then you have to say it's raining but the candy is falling down, or you can make totally silly sentences, right, depending on how you understand the context to be. Human, interpreters don't mistake it, but machine translators may mistake it, and then they do mistake it. So that's one thing. Like the words pronounce the same but they mean differently and when written, they are different, right, so that's one thing, but, on the other hand, sound recognition by AI is improving day by day, so I have to also admit that I use a lot of sound recognition or voice message function for any texting applications.
Speaker 2:In Japan, we have a messaging application called Line and more than 80% of the Japanese population use it. But then I stopped typing every time because it's taking too much time, and I started to use the voice message function, and it does not do the perfect job, especially those words that sound the same, with different meanings. But I can just edit and change those words only, and then I can also say period or comma, and they give us common or period and they can make the sentences um. So that's a great thing. So I'm also in a sense living with the technology, but I'm not dictated by the technology. So it's like, uh, you're, you're coexisting with the technology, but I'm, I have, I have, I have the handle. You know, I'm the pilot. Uh, I'm not the passenger. That's how I feel about this technology.
Speaker 1:Yeah, oh, I like that. Yeah, I'm definitely coexisting with it too, you know, but not not being dictated by it. But, um, I do for a fact love in my just general life not necessarily with interpreting how much more efficient I feel that I could give it a specific responsibility and I don't have to spend hours on end on something that it just helps me a shortcut right, it'll help me get to it, and I know a lot of interpreters use it for context-based. So when we were talking about earlier about context, being able to sort of derive context about a particular topic, as opposed to searching for it and compiling it ourselves, ai can do that for us in split seconds, in terminology as well. So now our glossaries are no longer something that we necessarily have to be consumed by. Ai can create that for us in a matter of seconds as well.
Speaker 1:So, absolutely, definitely with you on that. Being able to have it as part of my work, but not it dictating my work, I think, is definitely the best view of it when it comes to technology, at least up until this point. We're getting down to basically the end of our conversation, but I want to make sure that I give you the opportunity to share any new insights or any new words of inspiration for our listeners, whether that be someone that is just starting out in the field or someone that is considering entering the field. What words of advice or recommendation do you have for the generation of new language professionals?
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's the best question, or a great question. I think the message for younger generations who aspire to become an interpreter or a language professional is this Learning a language or learning how to interpret it itself is meaningful. And when you look at AI, they can do the job. I know it. But then you love the action, you love the act itself of interpreting or learning a foreign language. That's actually like a drug for me and it feels really like addictive.
Speaker 2:Sometimes I want to do it in English, I want to speak in English, I want to interpret it. So even if the people don't pay me for it, I will still be interpreting for the fun of it. So that's why, like, if you really can enjoy this not for money but for yourself, then interpreting is for you. But if you think you are interpreting just for something else, like for the monetary purpose, then maybe you should think twice about this. So, do you love it? If you don't love it, maybe it's not your job. But if you love it, welcome to the world of interpreting. I think that's the message for any younger generation who aspire to become an interpreter. Yeah.
Speaker 1:Excellent words of advice, particularly if you're wanting to do it for the money. That's not necessarily. This's not necessarily that this is not necessarily the profession for it, but the connection there with regards to what you're doing and how you do it, there is definitely a sense of pride in in the work. So thank you for that recommendation. And and then lastly, Rohe, where can our listeners find out more about you and the work that you do?
Speaker 2:yeah, thank you for that. Um, I am on youtube, I am on facebook, um, so if you can search, uh, real, hey, onishi, um, you can find me. I'm talking about interpreting and learning English and stuff like that. I'm also on LinkedIn. I also am on Instagram. I do not have a lot of short videos, but mainly I'm on YouTube and, sorry, I'm mostly speaking in Japanese, but sometimes I do upload English related articles and videos when I find some English speakers like you. So in those times, please do see me there. Yep, maybe you can find something really interesting about interpreting. I'm talking really a lot about interpreting in a way that's not really publicized yet. So, like when you see YouTube videos about interpreting, you will hear something like hey, interpreters can earn X million yen or Y billion yen I don't know if it's a billion yen, but you know this kind of monetary things but I'm not talking about that. So if you're looking for something different from those kind of mainstream interpreting videos, then welcome to my channel. Yeah.
Speaker 1:I'll make sure to include those links in the episode notes. Rioje, it was a pleasure talking to you once again, having you come back to the show. I hope that in the near future we get to do this again, just to see where you're at and where we're at at that time.
Speaker 2:Sure, let me once again try this. Muchas gracias por invitarme, pero no sé nada más en español.
