Brand the Interpreter
What if La Malinche—the Indigenous woman who famously served as interpreter and advisor to Hernán Cortés during the Spanish conquest of Mexico—could share her stories? Imagine the insights and experiences she could offer about the power of language and navigating the complexities of two worlds. That’s the spirit behind the Brand the Interpreter Podcast!
Hosted by Mireya Pérez, an interpreter and personal brand advocate, this podcast gives today’s interpreters a platform to share their own fascinating stories, challenges, and triumphs. Each episode pulls back the curtain on the world of interpreting, from navigating high-stakes conversations to facilitating cross-cultural understanding, offering listeners a glimpse into the lives of the professionals who bring meaning across languages.
Whether you’re an interpreter, a bilingual professional, or simply curious about the magic that happens behind the scenes, Brand the Interpreter immerses you in the stories of language professionals making an impact every day. It’s more than just a podcast—it’s a celebration of language, connection, and the vital human element that makes communication possible.
Join us to explore how the power of language, driven by human connection, shapes understanding, opens new worlds, and transforms perspectives, revealing the deeper truths that unite us all.
Brand the Interpreter
Transforming Schools for Multilingual Success with Mark Byrne
Unlock the secrets of effective language access in education with our guest, Mark Byrne, a dedicated language access consultant. From a life-changing experience in Peru to a flourishing career in language access advocacy, Mark's journey is both inspiring and informative. In this episode, he shares personal stories and professional insights about building inclusive environments for multilingual students and families at the K-12 level. Discover how strategic language access planning not only fosters inclusivity but also enhances academic outcomes and community engagement.
Navigate the complexities of language access legislation as we explore pioneering efforts by states like Illinois, Colorado, and New Jersey. Mark provides a comprehensive analysis of how legislation shapes language services and the crucial role of unified departmental efforts in schools. We delve into the intricacies of balancing compliance with impactful service delivery, emphasizing the academic and community benefits of investing in robust language access plans. This conversation offers valuable perspectives for educators, administrators, and policy advocates aiming to make a tangible difference in multilingual education.
Mark highlights the importance of professional development in leveraging these services for maximum impact. As we anticipate future developments, including potential federal guidelines, this episode is a treasure trove of insights and practical advice. Join us for an enlightening discussion that underscores the importance of language access in shaping the educational landscape and empowering diverse communities.
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Welcome back, branded Bunch, to another episode of the Brand the Interpreter podcast. This is Mireya, your host, and, as always, thank you so very much for joining me today. This is it. We have made it to the last full interview of the Brand the Interpreter podcast before the end of the calendar year and with all of the changes and the different projects going on this year, which I'm extremely grateful for, I recognize that there were fewer episodes that were rolled out in the Brand the Interpreter podcast this year, for this season, but I am excited for next season, as there will be definitely more episodes and just a variety of different content that I will be offering for your listening pleasure. And speaking of different content, please remember that next year I am planning on bringing a completely different show with a completely different format, entitled Echoes of the Interpreter, and in order for that podcast show to take off, I need your interpreter stories. So please remember to visit the show notes and click on the link to submit your entry to potentially have your story shared, created and shared on the Echoes of the Interpreter podcast. It's the end of the year and there are many new individuals that have just come across this podcast show for the first time. So if you've been listening to a couple of the episodes for a while and have enjoyed the content, I ask that you please take a moment to rate and review the show. Your ratings and reviews help keep this podcast show running, so please take a moment to go to your favorite podcasting platform In other words, wherever you listen to this podcast and give it a great rating. And if you're up to it, it'd be great to see your reviews as well. All right, and now on with the show.
Speaker 1:Today I'm speaking with Mark Byrne, whose story takes us from the football fields of Glenview, illinois, to a life-changing experience in Peru that sparked a deep passion for languages and cultures. Mark has carved out a fascinating career, one that shows how language access goes beyond words and becomes a strategy for creating inclusive spaces. In this episode, we'll explore how schools can approach language access with intention, treating it like a business model to better connect with multilingual students and families. Mark also shares insights into the critical role of legislation and gives us practical advice on identifying and empowering language access champions in schools. It's an inspiring and thought-provoking conversation about culture, education and community, and, as you know, I'm an advocate for language access policies in schools, so I always appreciate conversations that surround language access in public education. So that's what today is about, and I hope you enjoy it. So let's dive in.
Speaker 1:Mark Byrne is a language access consultant whose primary focus is to promote language access in K-12 schools and empower school leaders to advocate on behalf of multilingual families across the country. Mark is also the host of the Language Access Lectern, a podcast dedicated to celebrating school leaders who champion language access within their communities. When Mark is not working on initiatives to support multilingual student populations, he is likely running around the zoo or the arboretum or a local park with his son Harrison, age 5, and daughter Zoe, age 3. So, without further ado, please welcome Mark Byrne to the show. Mark, welcome to the show. It's a pleasure to have you. Thanks for being here today.
Speaker 2:Absolutely a pleasure to be here. Thank you for having me.
Speaker 1:Absolutely. I think today's conversation is going to be both entertaining, educational, and it's just going to be jam-packed with, hopefully, a lot of information, practical information that our listeners can actually utilize in their day-to-day right. At least, that's what I'm thinking.
Speaker 2:I'll deliver, I promise.
Speaker 1:So let's begin by getting to know Mark a little bit more. Mark, if you would be so kind as to just sharing a little bit about your background, where did you grow up and what maybe was a fond childhood memory of yours?
Speaker 2:Yeah sure, I was born in Evanston, illinois, which is just a little bit north of Chicago. I grew up in Glenview, kind of tying back into the Evanston field. One of my favorite childhood memories, you know I'm a big football fan, always have been and one of my youngest memories is the 1995 Northwestern Rose Bowl team and my dad would take us to all sorts of games Let me bring some friends and you know Northwestern had a history of just not being very good at football. I mean, we're talking terrible at football, you know, embarrassingly bad, like incredible multi-season losing streaks. So in 1995, when the program you know became, you know, prominent and, you know, able to deliver results, you know we were in, we were at every game and rushing the field with my dad and having him put me up on the goalpost while I tore the goalpost down with the rest of the Wahoos, that was a lot of fun. So that's, that's my, you know, one of my earliest childhood memories you know, of myself and my dad and my family here in Evanston Fun story.
Speaker 1:I can see how that would be a great memory.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I took my son to his first. Actually it wasn't his first football game. His first football game was a Northwestern game when he was about six weeks old, eight weeks old, something like that we had the little headphones on him. Like I said, I'm fanatical, but I brought him to a Notre Dame football game a couple of weeks back when they lost to Northern Illinois. We were there with my son. I don't think my son's getting invited back to Notre Dame State.
Speaker 1:It's okay, like there'll be other times when, when, when he'll have better memories, I'm sure, like you.
Speaker 2:Yeah, hopefully that's not his first football memory.
Speaker 1:Tell me a little bit about the demographics of of the town where you grew up. How, how was that for you?
Speaker 2:Yeah, no, I did not grow up with a bilingual or multilingual background. The community that I grew up in has experienced, you know, a rapidly growing EL student population. I went to Glenbrook 225 for high school great district and you know some tremendous leaders over there at Glenbrook who are doing remarkable things in building out dual language programs for students there and really rising to the occasion of, you know, promoting language access there at the Glenbrooks. So while it wasn't that way when I went to school there, you know the fabric of the community has certainly, you know, kind of evolved and changed over the years and you know certainly more of a multilingual community nowadays.
Speaker 1:You ended up eventually and we'll get into that piece a little bit later on but you did end up fast forward present day in the world of language access. Why don't you share with us a little bit about how sort of like the blocks to getting you to that point started? So give us a little bit background as to where it all began, now that you think back at it.
Speaker 2:Yeah. So, you know, thinking about how I grew up, you know came from, you know, relatively low income family, you know struggle a little bit growing up, you know, really didn't have a lot of opportunities to travel or get exposed to culture. So when I did have the opportunity to put myself through college, we had some travel opportunities as part of the mission at Holy Cross College to do some cultural immersion programs and I found myself in Peru and of course I took high school Spanish. I mean, it's, you know, a faith-based organization where we came in and we did service in the community. So you know, we worked for local food pantry and some of their programs to support some children with disabilities as well. So we were there for three weeks and just getting immersed in that culture and seeing different parts of the world and really getting to understand, you know just how broad the world is. You know, from a language perspective, it was so interesting being there in Peru. I actually got to hear Quechua spoken and I thought that was just. Yeah, I thought it was just the coolest thing and my Spanish was pretty good at the time. Of course I can't understand any Quechua, but just hearing it spoken, you know, in an authentic setting was just so incredibly neat to me and it was one of those experiences that really stuck out with me.
Speaker 2:So, you know, upon graduating from college, you know I was thrilled to get out into the world. I worked for a little bit in printing services. I then transitioned over to work as a marketing consultant in the financial services industry. The company I was working for got sold, so I was, you know, finding myself, you know, looking for jobs, and a recruiter reached out to me and they said you know, mark, we have this interesting opportunity. It's strange it's out there. It's not what we've talked about before. It's a Chinese translation agency. They're interested in you for, you know, coming on board and, you know, doing a business development role with them. Would you be open to that? I said, well, I'd be open to a conversation. You know I'm always curious, had a conversation with some of their leadership and part of that package that was appealing to me was the opportunity to travel to China and really kind of like dive in and double down on my curiosity for culture. And, you know, a few months into my tenure there, a company was called EC Innovations. A couple months into my tenure there, I was able to, you know, get out to China and spend three weeks out there, and it was for the company's 20th anniversary. So I got to spend some time with some of my peers out there, some of the colleagues that I've been working with over the past couple of months, some of their clients, and then also got to do some travel and cultural immersion across mainland China. So that was a really neat experience. It led me to the language industry.
Speaker 2:I'm very passionate about the world of K-12 education and I think a part of that is because, you know, I had a lot of challenges coming up in education. You know I'm actually kind of almost proud to admit it, but you know I'm a high school dropout. You know, went back in, got some, you know, went through the alternative program, got my high school diploma, ended up going to a community college, didn't have a lot of options when I went to a four-year university based on my grade point average, but you know it kind of allowed me to rise and allowed me to, you know, be authentic and tell my story in these K-12 schools. And now, as I come back, you know, all these, many years later, you know to be a prominent face in promoting language access in K-12 schools and leverage my curiosity of culture and my passion for helping improve student outcomes. You know, through language services.
Speaker 2:It's a very compelling story that I can get out and tell, so it can be very humbling thinking about. You know where you're from and what your past looks like. I do think that being authentic and being comfortable in your own skin, while being honest with people and being mission driven is really kind of a superpower for me. You know, just very down to earth, and knowing that I'm making a very small difference means a lot to me. You know, I don't so much think about the output of my efforts, but I think more about the impact of my efforts and and I'm excited for you know continuing on that path.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and we'll, and we'll get to talking as to where you are currently at a little up ahead. But I'd like to go back to your experience in Peru. So, aside from having heard the Quechua language and being immersed in that for three weeks, what did you bring home from that experience? What did you see as potentially just a contrast in the way you lived here in the States, for example, as opposed to the communities that you were serving? What did that look like for you being young out there in a foreign country? What was that like for you?
Speaker 2:It was an eye-opening experience. It made me appreciate a lot of the sacrifices that my family has made for me over the years. You know, like I said at the onset, you know I didn't grow up with a silver spoon in my mouth by any means, but when you start to see, you know what global poverty looks like and what poverty looks like in other countries man does it really make you appreciate. You know what we got going on here in the United States of America. So you know I came home feeling a great sense of gratitude. You know, after that three week immersion program my language skills were definitely sharper.
Speaker 2:I wish I could have stayed for another five months, you know, because it's one of those things you know, if you don't use it, you lose it. And you know I don't get a chance to work with my Spanish nearly enough, so that is a sore subject. But yeah, I think just mostly I came back with a great sense of gratitude and appreciation and just like respect for, you know, people and other cultures. And you know, at the end of the day, you know we shared a lot of smiles. You know when we were over there and you know I spent a lot of time running around playing soccer with kids and basketball and things like that. You know hobbies of mine, passions of mine that I got to share with people and it was awesome. It was awesome.
Speaker 1:And then your experience out years later out in China. So it's business. Were you working through an interpreter when you were out there working with them, or? Or had you, had you learned the Chinese language?
Speaker 2:Oh my goodness, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, not even close. Yeah, I can't even remember the you know the drinking expressions that they would have Gala or a gumby or something like that. You know, bottoms up, that's about all I got in China. Yeah, no, the folks that I was assigned to. I don't think he was a professional interpreter. He was a project manager for the organization and he spent a lot of time with me out there and we established a great friendship. He was a lot of fun to pal around with and we ended up working closely together for a couple of years after that, so it was a good way to kick off a relationship and friendship with him.
Speaker 1:He was what we now call one of the ad hoc interpreters, someone that was bilingual in the firm and was your assigned interpreter, perhaps.
Speaker 2:Yeah, he had his hands full that week, let me tell you, because I wanted to go everywhere and talk to everyone and shake hands with everybody and just make sure we connected. So he was working, that's for sure.
Speaker 1:That's so great. I was just curious like, oh, what happened there? Was there an interpreter involved? Or was that your first experience with an interpreter Now interpreter involved, or that was that your first experience with with an interpreter? Now I want to fast forward from these experiences. You know it in the beginning, you know of your journey into language access, into how you got started and what were those opportunities that that led you into language access. Because there was, I feel like there was um, some experiences with language, um, with foreign countries and going into different cultures and experiencing that. But it was, I'm assuming, through a series of events that led you into language access. You arrive in the language access world, but then you also stayed. So I want to go into what were those series of events that potentially occurred that led you into the language access world and then what inspired you to stay in that and expand in this world.
Speaker 2:Yeah, Well, I mean again, you know, curiosity of culture. It all comes down to that in terms of getting started. And you know, of course, I've had experiences working in the corporate world in a business development role. I've sold a lot of different things, whether it be, you know, my own time consulting or marketing services things, whether it be, you know, my own time consulting or marketing services, professional services I've sold curriculum data solutions in a K-12 setting. So I've done a lot of different things.
Speaker 2:Nothing really makes me feel as good as I do about positioning language services in a K-12 setting, though, just because I know that. You know language companies across the United States and probably globally. They don't really focus on the K-12 schools as much as they should. Right, many of these organizations are very focused on health care, life sciences, other industries where you know they'll devote more of their time and resources, and K-12 schools simply get left behind sometimes. You know, in terms of you know how you think about developing solutions specifically for those. So, in terms of why I choose to stay in the language services and the role that I am in currently, you know it's a great opportunity for me to advocate for families, advocate for multilingual students, school staff, but also the interpreters that we work with right. So it's just a great opportunity for me to kind of wrap my arms around the world of language access and be a champion for all people who are supporting these multilingual families and schools.
Speaker 1:Again, you know, sort of inspires your work, because I think that when individuals hear language access and they hear public education, potentially, are thinking interpreters, check, and you know the provision of the service basically. But I think we, we, we the listeners know that there there's a lot more involved in language access, and so I'd like to, I'd like to know what you, mark Byrne, see in the world of language access. You know what are. What are you seeing as the gaps that you feel that you, as the individual with your experiences and your knowledge, brings in to be able to offer and provide more information? I think that really that's what it's about, right. When we talk about language access in schools, it's about not only expanding the service itself, but expanding the knowledge behind the work. And so what is it that inspires your work in language access?
Speaker 2:You know. So, first and foremost, somebody who's really kind of struggled in you know, their own education, their own experience, who's, you know, sat through those disciplinary hearings, who sat through the special education meetings where you know they're trying to get you some additional supports to help get you through. You know, when they're trying to make outplacements for you once it's, you know, clear that you know you're not going to be able to make it through the school year, you know, based on how it's going for you, I remember sitting in those meetings and having a really hard time processing understanding. You know, maybe my mind was elsewhere dealing with, you know, trauma or challenges that I was facing in the moment. So I've sat in that seat. You know I know what that feels like and you know I'm also blessed and very fortunate and privileged. You know I don't have a language gap. Right, I had a great school district that I was a part of. They've done unbelievable things for me and you know, of course, you know, coming out of that experience. You know, going into higher education, you know I had to take remediated math courses. You know, if you look at the data, you know very few students, less than 10 percent of students, who have to take remediated math courses or any courses for that matter, remediated courses go on to to achieve their diploma. Not only have I gone on and got my four year diploma, I have a master's degree on top of that. So you know, I really do view myself as a one percenter in education and you know that's something that you know I take serious as a lifelong learner and I'm very grateful for the people who worked with me at the Glenbrooks to help get me through, to get me to this point Important to note that I never quit on myself. So you know, of course you know my own experience. You know carries with me.
Speaker 2:You know throughout the process, of course you know when you start thinking about you know the experience, you know that multilingual families have in the special education realm. Engagement is so important, right? You know I had my family there at all those meetings advocating on my behalf. They got me through, they got me to the next level. Well, when there is a language gap with a family, it can be very difficult for them to advocate on behalf of their students, their families. It's difficult for the school staff to be able to get an understanding of what's going on at home and what those challenges are and, at the end of the day, you know we want to help as educators right, it's a great opportunity to serve multilingual learners.
Speaker 2:Of course, and the other thing that I think really shapes my foundation and my understanding of the K-12 space and how I view language access stems from my experience working with student data at a company called Ecra Group, so they're a research and analytics firm. I was there for a little over a year, but it gave me a real, unique insight into how school leaders think about education, but then also the achievement gaps that exist across you know different student groups across education. So when you look at multilingual families and you see that you know very few of them are, you know, achieving, you know the student growth rates that their peers are. Well, if we don't grow those multilingual learners at rates that are accelerated for that of their peers, then those achievement gaps are going to continue to exist for years and years and years to come. So understanding that and realizing the opportunity that exists there for schools to stimulate student growth for multilingual learners and the impact that language services can have on driving engagement, I think is a really important component for school leaders to think about and understand, and you know that's the business of schools, right, academic return on investment is not about dollars that are invested for financial return, like you would think about in the business setting, but it's about dollars invested for student growth. And as I think about the language services space and how we, you know position, you know these services, of course, you know we need to bring resources and training and you know an understanding of why we're using these services to the end users who are using these support services. But we also need to share that story with school leadership, school boards, leaders in the community, stakeholders across our community and share the impact that language services can make in a K-12 setting. Engagement is a critical component for driving student growth and you know you could plug a Google search in or throw a dart at a map and you'll find data to support that engagement drives growth in K-12 schools.
Speaker 2:So when I think about my experience, you know broadly and you know there's been plenty of struggle for me I'm really excited, as I have matured in my career, to be able to kind of leverage some of my challenges, some opportunities. You know where I've kind of fallen flat. You know like, like an education, my own education and participating in my own education and to be able to, you know, tell that story, which I'm, you know, blessed to be able to do, you know, with many institutions you know will invite me out to talk a little bit about my experiences and some of my struggles and how I've gotten to be, you know that, 1% or an education. So it's what keeps me motivated. Like I said, I've done a lot of different things in my life but nothing inspires me like this.
Speaker 1:What have you been able to see in your current role when it comes to going out there and having these conversations with leadership?
Speaker 1:And I want to sort of give like the big picture for individuals that aren't necessarily involved in public education.
Speaker 1:Right, let's say that their expertise is medical or elsewhere in the community, but in education there's, like these different layers of administration, and all of them, potentially, are involved in the conversation surrounding language access.
Speaker 1:Language access in many school districts, for example, are broken components, and what I mean by that it's you've got one piece being worked in one department and then you've got another piece of language access being worked on in a different department and then, of course, like in many situations, those departments don't speak to one another, and so it's like broken components, right, but when you have access to speaking directly to individuals at a different level, such as you mentioned currently, board members, school board members, superintendents that typically I'm not saying all, but typically don't really have a conversation at the school level regarding language access. It could potentially be that there's unique school districts out there that have superintendents and board members that understand language access and all its complexities, but it's very rare. It's like the unicorn, would you agree? So yeah, so what are you noticing in having these conversations and having the ability to have access to these specific individuals? What are? What is it that you're seeing?
Speaker 2:Well, I do think, a lot of curiosity and interest in technology, always, you know, a focus on compliance around. You know state and federal legislation. You know that's always, you know, a key term that you know especially superintendents are going to understand, right, you know they want to make sure that they're being compliant with. You know what's required of them by the Department of Education or, you know, by their state legislation. So that's always going to be a consideration and a concern. But you know you did touch on something at the onset of your question and you know I will say that as I'm out talking to people. You know language access is not equal in all 50 states and you know I don't want to make this a political comment, but I think there's a lot more that we can do in schools to be supportive of our multilingual families. And you know, as it relates to language access, you know being more considerate of tools and putting together a more comprehensive plan around language access is important. So many, if not all, of our schools have a strategic plan and it relates to growth and buildings and you know, creating different services within the district, but language access is never a component of that strategic plan. So, because what you mentioned to me was that different departments are disconnected from the work that they're doing to support language access across schools, and that's part of the conversation that I'm trying to bridge, or I'm trying to connect that with different departments and help them tell their story as to how they support multilingual families across the community. And it's a tremendous value that we provide in that sense, because there's a disconnect there and you know, if the right hand doesn't know what the left hand is doing, then we're going to have a hard time. You know, putting our hands around a student and helping them, you know, achieve as much success as they could possibly have and you know that's true whether they're a multilingual family or if they're, you know, a family or student who's deaf or hard of hearing, be able to put together those supports for families and understand. You know what you're doing, how you're doing it, why you're doing it. You know to drive growth, I hope right to help those students improve their student outcomes very important and you know that's the type of conversations that I'm trying to have with school leadership and you know, when I do get an opportunity to speak with directors of, you know, multilingual departments, they speak that language and they know that this is a direction that the industry is going to. The education industry is what I'm referring to.
Speaker 2:I do anticipate that the Department of Education is going to put out some guidelines around language access planning in the years to come. It would not surprise me in the least if it was mandatory for all schools to put together a language access plan for all their families as a component of a strategic plan. And you know, I think about you know what the impact of that could be across. You know 20,000 schools in this country, something like that, school districts, and you know it's just a remarkable opportunity. As I think about you know the seat that I'm sitting in, the work that I'm doing and the ability to you know really have an impact. I think language access planning is going to be a great way for me to be able to do that with school partners. So I think this, this should be, you know, on the tip of a school leader's tongues, especially if they're focused on supporting multilingual communities.
Speaker 1:Absolutely Pre-recording. We spoke about a lot of things, but one of those things that I'm really interested in you being able to expand on for our audience is the conversation of the business of language access, because I think that it sort of goes into what we were just talking about all those different elements of what language access truly entails. It goes beyond ensuring that there are bilingual staff, which we already know that that isn't even enough, right Bilingual staff is not ensuring meaningful and appropriate language services to our multilingual families. But, generally speaking, this is sort of the idea that is wrapped around language access services. So, thinking about those different elements, what to you, is the business of language access? How can someone that potentially does not understand language access look at it from through that lens in order to be able to make the connection with what they're doing and what they're offering? What is the business of language access?
Speaker 2:Yeah, so you know, I think it's a couple of components right. So earlier I teased the concept of academic return on investment right, dollars invested for student growth and I think that's an important component for school leaders to understand and be able to measure and quantify how the investment is impacting students. I think that's critical. We want to understand what we're spending the money on and we want to understand what we get out of it. And taking a look at data and taking a look at the dollars spent and seeing where you're spending the money and seeing what you get for it, I think is an incredibly important component. And, of course, you know different districts have different tools in place to measure student growth and to look at student data. There's a lot of great companies out there who do that kind of work, but you know, then, to be able to attach you know, some sort of growth metric to measure you know what do we get out of this investment? You know, of course, we made the investment, we spent X amount of dollars, but how much growth did that lead to for our multilingual families? So I really think you know, having a system in place that allows you to measure your impact is really important. Now, I mentioned a critical word and I've done it a couple times, and that's impact. So the other thing that I talk about with school leaders, as it relates to academic return on investment and the work that we do in K-12 schools, is, you know, it's not about the output, right, it's about the impact. So, when you're thinking about the role of an interpreter Right and I oftentimes don't think school leaders really understand what the role of an interpreter is or how that works, but you know, you got to think less about the output, right, understanding, right. They think too much. It's all you know. We just need to understand each other. We need to understand each other. Well, it's not always about understanding, right. Like you think about the role of an interpreter in a special education setting, okay, it's important to develop an understanding. There's lots of ways that we can go about getting an understanding from one another, right, there's tools, there's technologies, there's interpreters, there's all these different ways, but one of the important things that we're trying to do within that special education setting is establish credibility and trust with the family. That's so, so, incredibly important in special education, especially as you start talking about, you know, outplace services or you know different things that you want, you know, families to react to or sign off on, or, you know, allow their student to. You know, take advantage of the best of what your district has to offer. You're going to need to get buy-in from that family, and you know, allowing them to, you know, limp their way through a conversation in broken English is not allowing them to have meaningful participation in their son or daughter's education. It's just not so. You know, when you think about that and you think about, you know, academic return on investment and what we get out of it, I encourage school leaders to think about the output instead of the impact. And another thing that I like to talk about with school leaders is I'm, you know, talking about, you know, language access more broadly and you know, especially, you know, around, the importance of having a language access plan.
Speaker 2:You think about lost time. Now, lost time, right, like. You think about that in a manufacturing setting. You know our presses are down or our conveyor belt is down and all of a sudden, I have, you know, 40 employees are standing there, you know, and I'm paying them X bucks an hour and no one is working. That's lost time.
Speaker 2:Well, in school districts, when there's, you know, a language barrier that we're having a hard time overcoming.
Speaker 2:We're trying to figure out how we're going to figure out this or how we're going to create, you know, some understanding between this family and our staff.
Speaker 2:We don't even know what language they're speaking sometimes when they walk into the school.
Speaker 2:If there's a real a lack of, you know, ability to speak English, so that's lost time right there.
Speaker 2:You know, if I'm a director of, you know, teaching and learning at a school district and I have a family and I can't figure out how to, you know, have a conversation with them and I'm sitting there for 15 minutes and I'm walking down the hallway to talk to this person and I'm walking down the hall to figure this, that's lost time. And if you think about how many multilingual learners you have across your district and you're thinking how many interactions that they have across the district, then you start to realize how much lost time can exist and what an incredible bottleneck that is for a school district. And again, I only bring this up to reinforce the importance of having a strategic language access plan to be able to train and articulate the who's, the how's, the why's of how we go ahead and we service these families. So that's a little bit about the business of language access that I do not think that school leaders really think about as it pertains to, you know, putting together a language access plan, but it's got to be of political importance, right.
Speaker 1:Absolutely. I like what you just said because it really puts an emphasis on understanding who you're serving. So, if we look at it from the lens of a business a business, I imagine, wants to understand the audience that they're serving, right, the public that they're serving it's like when you're thinking about the client model what's that? What do they call it? Your avatar, right? Your client avatar? What does that individual look like? Now, I would imagine that any great business always thinks about how we're going to tailor the service to that specific audience. What are their interests? What are they looking for? Where are those weak points? Wherever we look, it's all about the data that businesses are collecting in order to understand, better understand, the clients that they're serving or the audience that they're trying to serve.
Speaker 1:And it behooves me how many school districts try to do this backwards by just simply stating we are providing services without necessarily understanding the demographics.
Speaker 1:So what I'm hearing you say is that data is a very important component.
Speaker 1:You've talked about student data and the past and your experiences and how that brings sort of shines a light into the need for potential services, and school districts do this all the time.
Speaker 1:When it comes to student data, specific student data on academics, on academic growth, on engagement.
Speaker 1:They're always looking at those numbers to really sort of identify gaps, first and foremost, and then, of course, to sort of address or tailor what those plans are going to be for the next school year in order to address those gaps. And so it behooves me, whenever we talk about language access to particularly administrators that are making decisions such as this, that there's never any data around the topic of language access, the data, which is interesting, right, because there's been conversations I know, I've had conversations with administration in which they say well, you know the communicate, if we've got English learners, x amount of English learners, that equates to the amount of individuals that we service, because English learners, families typically are, you know, the ones that are in need. But if we, if we really look at it from that angle, let's just say I always go back to thinking about how English learners are reclassified at some point, and the term for the reclassification, you know, might differ from district to district, but let's just say that right.
Speaker 1:no, they're no longer English learners. The fact that the English learner reclassified doesn't mean that their family did as well learners. The fact that the English learner reclassified doesn't mean that their family did as well. So the fact that the English learner no longer needs the service or the support at the same level doesn't mean that their family member, their parents, do not. So if you're using that data point as your data to determine the language need of your families, then sorry to bust your bubble, but that's inaccurate, right, an inaccurate approach, and you should be looking further into how can we collect the data. So I suppose let's go back to the business of language access. Let's start with understanding your audience. If we look at it from the angle of a business Client experience.
Speaker 2:Client experience, that's that business language that you don't necessarily find in school sometimes. But yeah, you hit the nail on the head. It's that client experience, right? It's the experience that you make for your families, it's the experience that you make for the students, it's how they feel when you walk into the building, right? I walk into school districts all the time, you know, meeting with different folks or putting on professional development training sessions. You know, you can tell those school districts where language access is at the core of what they do. You can feel it and I hope all school districts strive to, you know, be more inclusive amongst their multilingual learners. For sure, and there's absolutely an opportunity for all school districts to improve on that front. But you can really see those districts that are lighthouse districts for language access and how they wrap their arms around those families and they, you know, get the family liaisons out into the community and they provide those liaisons with those tools that they need to communicate with people across multiple different languages or multiple different, you know different cultures that they represent.
Speaker 1:Yeah, but I would go as far as I mean and at this point it would be assuming, because I wouldn't know unless I went there specifically and see if they wanted to be on Brand the Interpreter podcast and have an interview with them. But I would assume that it starts with collecting the information as to who their audience are in order to be able to sort of, in a way, reverse engineer. Now, how do we provide the appropriate service to this particular audience? So if they're determining that there's specific languages, then that first experience of a family member that potentially might be experiencing for the very first time education in the States, what is that experience going to be like for them upon arrival? And so for the school districts or educational institutions that have it right, it's very likely because they dug a little deeper, they looked beyond the surface level of who their audience is in order to be able to provide the appropriate level of service.
Speaker 2:And oftentimes those departments are empowered to go out and find the work and find the people to support them. They'll find the budget in these districts that really value language access Right in these districts that really value language access right. And in years past, with the ESSER dollars flowing, there was, you know, an incredible influx of money, you know, available to our school systems and many districts, you know, did spend some of that money on ESSER funds and some of their ESSER funds on those types of services. Excuse me, and you know it's just a. It's great to see, but, you know, as I think about the landscape across the country, I do think there's a lot of work to do in the realm of language access and, you know, I think the conversation just needs to be shifted a little bit in terms of what the role of language services is, as opposed to just being about the output.
Speaker 2:Make it about the impact, make it about the families and attach that to your goals, your you know, your strategic goals for your district and driving student growth and forcing more kids and and and just propelling them, uh, above, you know, uh, grade level achievement. You know that's, that's what that role is. So, um, you know, hopefully we can continue to, you know, inspire folks to, you know, take the bull by the horns and do great things to support those communities. But I do think it all starts with the plan. And you know, like you said, as you think about graduating English learners and multilingual learners, you know, outside of that designation, you know that that in itself could have an impact on language access for those families, right. So very important to continue to tie that information back to your student information system and things like that.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I had a guest sometime back, kleber from New York Public Schools, and he shared something that has stayed with me throughout all this time, which basically was language access is everyone's responsibility in an educational system.
Speaker 1:It's not the responsibility of a specific department, of a specific person, of a specific, maybe even team. It's everyone should have the ability to have a conversation that surrounds language access and everyone, from every level in a school district, should make it their responsibility, from the teacher that is trying to schedule a meeting to meet with the family, appropriate language access. Right, and thinking about I'm going to meet with a family that speaks a language other than English and then following the appropriate steps in order to ensure that they're able to communicate meaningfully with that family, all the way to the superintendent or even the school board, being able to think about what processes do we have in place to be able to support the families that we serve, based on demographics, based on data, not based on someone's. I think we should right. The data tells us that we should be doing this. So I really appreciate that, really that thought of thinking that it's everyone that has access to a student.
Speaker 2:You made that sound really easy. Let's not oversimplify this. Like what you just laid out there is ideal but not easy. So you know when I think about having these conversations with school leaders, right, you know, of course. You know student support services or special education could be a multilingual department depending on the size of the school. But you know they'll have, you know, different schools, early snowflakes. Everyone's different. They'll have different requirements. They'll have different.
Speaker 2:You know challenges, certainly, but you know rolling out professional development and training around language access is not something that I've seen schools do particularly well. And what I do when I sit down with the district, you know I try to find those champions for language access. First, you know at the admin level, right, whether it be an assistant superintendent who's going to take on the charge or, you know, your director of multilingual services, et cetera. So we want to find those champions at the district level and then what I encourage them to do is identify champions for language access in every single building across your district and we want to train those folks up and we want to make them champions and we want to increase their visibility and really market the work that they're doing.
Speaker 2:I don't think schools are very good marketers or self-promoters in the sense of celebrating the work that they're doing.
Speaker 2:But when it comes to championing language access, stakeholders across the community need to know what those people's roles are and the type of work that they're doing, so they can identify who they can call on when there is an issue accessing services or you do need to arrange for an interpreter to come into a school meeting or you want to figure out how you're going to call home. It's very difficult to train 5,000, 10,000, 10,000, you know staff on accessing language services. Everybody's got a lot going on. So you know, I think if you try to eat the elephant in one bite, it doesn't always work out so well. But if you, you know, go ahead and you kind of take a scaffolded approach to professional development and you identify champions for language access in every building, you're going to have a lot more success than if you, you know, come out swinging and try to get 5,000 people on board to provide those services. So I loved everything that you said right there, but I don't want to oversimplify or undersimplify how challenging that could be.
Speaker 1:I should say yeah, but I think that's in the realm, particularly, of a school district. I think it's understood that that's with anything, even just adopting a new policy, for instance, and then it's rollout, right. What's that going to look like at every level, not just at the district level? My conversations, the same, go exactly the same, so you could have the big picture idea. But then, of course, what is that going to look like for everyone at each level? And it's going to be different, it's not going to be a blanket approach for everyone. Nevertheless, I think that thinking about that big picture I mean that would be the start, at the very least, having beginning the conversations. I like how you talked about champions, champions for language access, because that is really thinking about the specific individuals at every level that are going to be involved or making it their business to be involved in appropriate services is really what it takes.
Speaker 2:And we talked about lost time earlier. Right, and the challenge that that represents for a school district, and I don't think they really think about that. But if you have established champions for language access, it's one phone call, it's not walking around and trying to figure this out and, oh no, you're starting to feel the pressure. This person's been sitting here for 15 minutes, 20 minutes, they've been here for 30 minutes. I can't get anyone to help me, my goodness. But if you identify who those champions are across your buildings, then at least you have somebody you can turn to, who can be that problem solver for you, be that stopper.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and continuing this idea, there's notion of the business of language access. We can equate your language ambassadors or your language champions, excuse me with brand ambassadors, right? So the individuals that are out there promoting the business, knowing the business at least to a level in which they're attracting the right audience because you know who you are targeting and being able to attract the right audience to your brand, and I think it would be the same thing, it would equate to that. You've got the individuals that understand language access, that know what the services are, but they can only know that if there's that bigger picture, what's the plan?
Speaker 2:And I will say that it's overwhelming to me how many school staff would love nothing more than to support these multilingual families, right? Great people all across the United States who want to support these multilingual families, who would bend over backwards and give them the shirt off their back, right? That's the type of people that educators are in the K-12 space, right. But when the going gets tough and you got a lot of things going on and these bottlenecks exist that you can't solve and you need to get to the next problem, then it turns out that this family is not getting services right, because it gets really, really hard to provide those services. And then you find, you know, you're on Google Translate just trying to get an understanding of what one another is saying instead of driving impact. You know through professional language services and you know really supporting those families and making them feel like you know they're part of the community, regardless of you know what their challenges are. You know with the English language. So, yeah, I think that's a very important component.
Speaker 1:Yeah, no, that's definitely true. What are you seeing, Mark in the landscape? You have the opportunity, in your current role, to be able to work with districts across you know the US. Your current role to be able to work with districts across you know the US. What are you seeing in terms of just maybe, trends or potentially what's to come, and thinking about the technology piece and thinking about legislation?
Speaker 1:Earlier in the conversation, you mentioned the Department of Justice. I mean, excuse me, the Department of Justice is very well involved in this conversation as well, but the Department of Education and potentially rolling something out which I would agree with that statement as well only because just a couple of years ago, I do remember that they were pushing out a survey with regards to language access services, and it was our hope for those of us that were that are in this, in this specific specialization, that the Department of Education was getting ready to roll something out. You know some updated guidelines or something more specific on on language access services, but what is it that you're seeing out there that is specific to K through 12 education?
Speaker 2:Yeah, well, you know. So at the federal level, you know, I think it makes sense to revisit that question after the election, right? This is going to be an important election for language, language access, for sure, and I know the folks at the department of education feel that. Um. So you know that's a question that I'm probably not comfortable addressing at this time. We could speak about that, you know, after the election and see how that turns out.
Speaker 2:But at the state and local level, there is tremendous legislation coming across. You know, all across the United States I've seen some fascinating legislation out of the state of Illinois, where I'm from, in special education, and a lot of the legislation that they've introduced here I believe should be best practices for anybody you, for anybody overseeing a multilingual department. So, again, most of them focused on special education. So one of the things that they do in Illinois and I think it's a tremendous thing is they make families aware right on the IEP paperwork that they have the right to have an interpreter present that the district will pay for, on an IEP meeting, not that they'll provide one if you ask, but that it's your right. We're letting people know that it is your right to have an interpreter present for these special education meetings. That's important On the translation side of the house. It's a requirement now in Illinois to deliver IEP paperwork three days in advance, translated, for these families, in advance of the IEP meeting. It gives them an opportunity to review the materials and come to that meeting prepared with know, prepared with questions and have, you know, truly meaningful participation in their son and daughter's.
Speaker 2:You know, schooling Very important. What else is going on here in Illinois? That's exciting. You know. Of course machine translation is a huge hot topic. So you know, in a lot of school districts you know they're doing translation work. You know, sometimes you know machine translation through their IEP software management. That can be kind of challenging in terms of getting a quality deliverable. But in Illinois it is a requirement that you know IEP documents at a minimum can be machine translated with a human post editor. So that's a very important component in terms of delivering a quality deliverable to these families so that they can actually and you know, when you think about special education language and the vernacular and some of that language, it's very technical, it's specific, it does not play well with, you know, different machine translation engines that we've done testing with and it's not something that we should be using at this time within education.
Speaker 2:So I think it's really exciting that Illinois has introduced legislation specifically around special education and language access. I know in Colorado they've kind of mimicked that legislation and they've just recently introduced that. In New Jersey there's a requirement I think it's Language Access Bill 3435, requiring school districts to have their top seven languages translated. All the materials, whether it be, you know, registration, you know IEP documents, things like that, consent forms, student field trip forms need to be translated in all their top seven languages. Now, you know, in terms of compliance at the state level, I don't know how that's going to roll out, you know, I really don't know, but I know there's a lot of legislation coming at the state level in a lot of different places all across the country that really, you know, just kind of amplifies what's going on at the federal level. I think you know some of that language around.
Speaker 2:Language access at the federal level is kind of ambiguous as it relates to what is required of a district in order to, you know, follow through and deliver services to these multilingual families.
Speaker 2:I don't love the language that's currently been introduced at the federal level, but I think it's really exciting that different states are making improvements and creating their own best practices, and you know it's up to people like me to get out and celebrate those successes and introduce that legislation and tell people you know that these changes are, you know, coming all across the United States and you know, look at what folks in Illinois are doing and can we just imagine what the impact of that's going to be on students and family.
Speaker 2:I think that's pretty neat. So I think it's, you know, imperative for folks that are passionate about language access to do the best to influence and, you know, try to have conversations with lawmakers whenever possible. Maria, you know you have a great platform here and you know it would be fascinating to, you know, hear stories from, you know folks from the DOE or you know different people who focus on state legislation. You know, come on your show. I haven't gotten too deep into the roster yet in terms of what I've listened to, but it's a very important conversation. It's a conversation that's going to continue to evolve and I think ultimately we're going to continue to work through a process of continuous improvement as it relates to language access legislation, where I think you know that the guidelines from the federal government will become more clear in time.
Speaker 1:And that's really what I hope to see. You know there's that federal, federal guidelines that are that are out there. You have to dig for them and you have to know what you're looking for in order to find them. So my, in my ideal world, there'd be a language access platform at the federal level to be able to support at the state level whatever their endeavors are. And you're right, I mean from Illinois to New Jersey, washington state rolled out theirs.
Speaker 1:No, I mean there's, there's, there's Massachusetts, if I'm not mistaken, um rolled out theirs as well, Uh, and then I believe, if I'm not mistaken, um, I heard this last year at the AAITE conference, uh, their annual conference, this last year at the AAITE conference, their annual conference Maryland is looking to do something like that as well. So, yeah, we're seeing, we're seeing and this is very specific to public education which is that's like it's the greatest for me at least, it's like wow, I can't believe this is happening, you know, across across the nation, which is amazing. But then, of course, we've got the state level and schools still don't need, don't know what to do, even if there is guidance at that level. So there's still a need for understanding and information, absolutely, and being able to have a platform such as this to continue to bring out information and share information I think it's a privilege for me and it's an honor to be able to do so and have conversations with individuals like you, Mark, that have an understanding of the need and what, potentially, schools can do in order to be able to support their need.
Speaker 1:So I want to thank you very much, Mark, for the opportunity to have this conversation with you, and I always allow the opportunity for guests to share a little bit more about where they're currently at, what services are being provided and how our audience could potentially reach out to you and connect with you. So at this time, I'd like to open it up and allow you the opportunity to share about where you're currently at, what services are being provided and how individuals can get a hold of you if they'd like.
Speaker 2:Yeah, well, I'm never hard to find right, mark Byrne. I'm with PGLS. I oversee all of their K-12 initiatives around translation, interpretation, language training Very excited to launch a language access planning consulting arm of our business here this fall. So we got a couple districts who are going to serve as pilots for us in terms of creating a comprehensive language access plan. That's going to involve some. Well, I don't want to get into it too much until I have something to roll out, but I'm very excited about you know, the opportunity that I have. Pgls offers language services in 200 languages and regional dialects. We also offer free professional development and training on our systems and software for our K-12 clients, as well as best practices on optimizing the impact of language services in a K-12 setting, which could absolutely be another podcast for another day. So, maria, again thank you for all the work you do and giving me this platform to come in and talk about the business of language access. It was a lot of fun and hopefully we'll get a chance to do it again sometime.
Speaker 1:Absolutely Sounds great to me.
Speaker 2:Thank you so much yeah.
