Brand the Interpreter

Lessons from a Blind Interpreter with Jamey Cook

• Mireya Perez • Season 6 • Episode 94

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Imagine overcoming a disability and thriving in a world that may not always understand or accommodate your needs. In this empowering conversation, I had the pleasure of speaking with Jamey Cook, a blind interpreter who has done just that. Join me as Jamey shares her journey of defying expectations, learning languages, and advocating for accessibility in various aspects of her life.

Throughout our discussion, Jamey recounts her experiences growing up, being mainstreamed from preschool to high school, and adapting to her unique circumstances in order to excel in her education and career. We also explore the importance of accessibility for blind interpreters, the accommodations they may require, and the value of building supportive peer networks to help navigate the challenges they face. Plus, we delve into the broader issue of disability access in transportation, conferences, and virtual meetings, and discuss the discrimination and difficulties that Jamey has encountered throughout her life.

As a passionate advocate for accessibility and inclusion, Jamey offers invaluable insights on the importance of openness and advocacy in order to create a more inclusive world for people with disabilities. Listen in and be inspired by Jamey's incredible journey, her determination to succeed, and the valuable lessons she has to share with us all.

Only on the podcast that shares your stories about our profession: Brand the Interpreter!
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Connect with Jamey Cook
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Translation Times Article
Resources for People who Are Low Vision or Blind and Their Families
The Seeing Eye
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Mireya Perez:

Jamey, welcome to Brand the Interpreter. Thank you for being here today.

Jamey Cook:

I'm eager to see what all I can teach, maybe, or what all I can learn either way.

Mireya Perez:

Yes, i'm excited actually to be able to share your story and, of course, honor to be able to do it here on this platform. So I'd like to begin by asking you what did you aspire to be when you grew up?

Jamey Cook:

So at first I wanted to be a teacher because I loved learning very much and I had really wonderful teachers and didn't really know how blessed I was to have such great teachers until I reached college and ran into students from different parts of the country who did not have the same educational experience as I had, and so that was really eye-opening to me The same educational experience.

Mireya Perez:

Tell us a little bit more about that, so.

Jamey Cook:

I grew up in Knoxville, tennessee, and was extremely fortunate to be mainstreamed from preschool through high school. So I went to my local public schools. Braille books and audio texts were provided to me by the state, and what was then known as recording for the blinded dyslexic it is now known as learning ally, and back in the day they would use audio cassettes and you would find a double beep per chapter and a single beep for a page, and even in college I taught my readers this recording method so that I could have findable audio texts that the disability services director, i remember, had people start recording and I finally brought a stack of tapes back to her and said I need you to use this method and this tape recorder because I am spending two thirds of my time finding my homework and one third doing it.

Jamey Cook:

So, for those that are listening, jamie, tell us about your disability that don't know, for those that don't know what your disability is, So I was born at 26 weeks gestation and spent 68 days in the NICU and developed retinopathy of prematurity, which they have thought is caused by too much exposure to oxygen and the incubator. They now do a lot of eye exams for preemies So as to just keep track of how things are going, but this was back in the early 1980s. I in fact have a little network of scars from all the little heel pricks. This was pre-pulse-hoc-seminar days, and then I, from the age of nine months through three years, had a total of 11 eye surgeries that were ultimately unsuccessful in reattaching my detached retinas. So I grew up totally blind.

Mireya Perez:

Thank you for sharing that, and what was that experience like for you as a child? Tell us a little bit about how you felt in terms of being out there in the world, potentially with other kids in school. What was that like growing up for you?

Jamey Cook:

Mostly it was a very positive experience.

Jamey Cook:

In preschool the teachers were horrified when I wanted to push Laura, a child in a wheelchair, around the circular track, but it worked out great because she could direct me and I could push the wheelchair. So once they realized we were just collaborating and there was nothing strange that was going to happen, we had a blast Because I got mad because she couldn't ride the tricycles And I was like we're going to do this And we were best friends and we would run to each other every morning and that was awesome. Did I run into some bullying? Yes, occasionally, but I had a lot of eager classmates who were there very willing to help me.

Jamey Cook:

So you know whether it was sighted guide through the lunch line or you know, as we moved classrooms, i did receive orientation and mobility training throughout elementary, middle and high school, which is the name for the teaching that shows a blind person How to use a cane. And ultimately I got a dog when I graduated with my master's from UNC, because I have some alignment issues And it's just much easier granted very different, but much easier for me to travel with a dog as far as mental mapping, crossing streets, lining up properly, that sort of thing.

Mireya Perez:

When your family found out that the surgeries were going to be unsuccessful, what did your grandfather say?

Jamey Cook:

He, said oh well, jamie's just going to learn in a different way than other people, but she's going to learn right along with them.

Mireya Perez:

And that was in fact how it went for you in terms of being able to get through school. I mean, you just mentioned yourself right now you got through your master's program and it was just a matter of learning differently, correct?

Jamey Cook:

Yes, And the collaboration through all the way through my schooling, through high school especially, was really wonderful. I struggled with math and I later learned that that is a common struggle for pre-meas.

Mireya Perez:

Yeah, oh really, i was going to say well see, i have no excuse, because I was going to say yeah, i mean, don't we all?

Jamey Cook:

I think language professionals may be more than others, but oh yes, my grandfather grew up with a carpenter for his father and so he learned that I would need tactile toys. So I got his permission to give this counter that he had painted bright red to a young lady who was blind and I think she was about maybe two at the time. But he made big red beads and they would go on sticks and I could count, you know, put one bead and then two beads all the way to five. And then he made a screen board which is basically a picture frame with tape on the back of it and a piece of screen in it and you can draw lightly with crayon or pencil and the lines will be raised. I used that learning my capital letters, even in geometry and biology. Incredibly useful piece of equipment, and one of my dear friends had a house fire and he made me two of them and she lost everything. So I gave one of them to her because I knew she would need it.

Mireya Perez:

Wow, so you ended up learning a second language. Walk us through how this occurred and how this was a bit different for you, with your different ability.

Jamey Cook:

So I just fell in love with Spanish at the age of five, when my mom taught me a few words. She was not fluent, but had learned some. Growing up in a tiny town in East Texas And I my parents probably had to beg the library for the blind to let me keep the tapes that I was studying, and I was studying them so intently that my dad figured out a way to duplicate them, and so I studied and worked on trying to perfect my accent from the age of about seven until 13 or so, when I could finally start formally studying Spanish in high school. And I tell people that I learned new vocabulary, i learned how to spell properly and I learned grammar at the names of different grammar things, but spent most of my high school Spanish bored out of my mind Because I had taught myself so much, and so I didn't have that experience of a non native speaker walking into the classroom knowing nothing, which was really nice actually.

Mireya Perez:

Yeah, so you were advanced already by the time that you got in there. And then did you continue? did you continue your studies after high school?

Jamey Cook:

Oh, i did So. I took through Spanish for in high school and we got to do a little teaching and I was able to collaborate with my classmates in Spanish for and that was fun. But then I went to Merrillville College, which is a small college very close to the Smoky Mountains National Park, about 20 minute drive from Knoxville, and it's an amazing school. I could again wax eloquent for a long time about how wonderful going to a small liberal arts college was. It was a good transition from one main high school building, some out buildings and the vocational building, to learning a whole small campus And it was the first time that I was on my own, so I was only 20 minutes from home if I needed something. But I was able to live in the dorm and I got a significant scholarship They're big on financial aid there And was able to study Spanish and. But a lot was very different. I had if I produced. If I wanted something in Braille in undergrad at least, i would have to produce it myself.

Jamey Cook:

So I used a whole lot of the audio texts from recording for the blind and dyslexic which is now learning allies I mentioned, and because I noticed that some of my classmates were struggling in second year Spanish and said, hey, if anybody wants to come to my dorm room, i can't loan these tapes out, but you can certainly come and listen to the story you've just read and see if that helps. And one woman took me up on it and she was a sophomore junior maybe anyway, but she also attended the Venezuelan exchange program a year before I did And I wasn't sure what braille and access to text was going to be in a foreign country. So I wrote a really long email to the coordinator of Venosa, who was in Miami, and she ultimately got back in touch with my Spanish advisor, dr Elizabeth Perez-Reilly, and said we want Jamie to have a companion. Well, right about that time, disability Services was changing for the better. We had a new person coming in and they worked it out through Vogue Rehab to pay her for reader hours. And so on August 20th of 2002, i flew down. It was my last day in the US.

Jamey Cook:

I flew down on the 21st to Merida, and what a lovely experience, and my heart aches for all the Venezuelans who have been enduring this strange and horrible transition that has happened since Chavez was in power. But Sarah had a big backpack and we carried around the printed texts and she would read to me at night. And at the time I had a braille and speak, which I don't currently have with me because it's so old. It's probably sitting in a box somewhere, but it was a glorified DOS word processor with a calculator and a clock and a timer and a few other tiny little bells and whistles, but it was very portable. The only way I had of producing braille while I was in Venezuela was with a direct braille slate which I will turn around once I get these pieces of paper detached.

Jamey Cook:

Here we go. So the clip here will hold a piece of paper in place And a traditional slate and stylus has a point on the stylus and holes in the board. And Larry Hawk invented this direct braille slate and did the exact reverse, with a hole in the stylus and points on the board, allowing a braille reader to read and write braille from left to right. The slate that is known about more popularly in literature from Lewis Braille's time is actually mirror image braille. So you're writing everything backwards from right to left, from right to left, and there's a pointed stylus and there's indentions in the slate board itself. So you have to flip the paper over in order to read what you're writing, and I envy the generation that came before me because they can go as fast on a slate and stylus a traditional slate and stylus as I can with, say, my Android braille tablet or my braille display or other Perkins other technologies that write braille.

Mireya Perez:

Amazing, Wow. Thank you so much for sharing that. At some point you are given the opportunity to utilize your language skills, your bilingual language abilities now in a more professional setting, right? So talk to us about that opportunity and what that did for you personally. So.

Jamey Cook:

I think I was a junior in high school or maybe even a sophomore, and my mother was a medical librarian that worked closely with a lot of the local hospitals and someone from the hospital nearest her called up and said hey, we've got a patient in the maternity department and could Jamie come and interpret or visit with her? And so I did, and that same year I had joined a conversation group of women from the Knoxville area And so, in order to get my speaking ability where my reading and writing ability was because, thank God, i learned with the audio lingual method I'll get into that a little bit more as to why that's so important in a moment. But so I started out as a patient visitor, then became a substitute interpreter for Patricia Neal Rehab Center in Knoxville And then when I got to Merrillville College, my wonderful advisor found me all sorts of jobs that got me broadening my vocabulary into mortgage and insurance and all kinds of different things, but some of the time it was just a one off opportunity, but it was great because I could keep my skills up. And then so I was like, wow, this is really neat. And I was a TA at Merrillville College and had a sighted colleague working alongside me to do things like flashcards and VCR equipment and that kind of thing.

Jamey Cook:

But when I moved to my master's at UNC, it was going to be the first time I was living alone, several hours away from home, and here I was able to interpret for the Shack Clinic, which I believe is the Student Health Alliance Coalition. They have a free clinic that meets on Wednesdays, and the list moderator wrote to all of us in a few years ago and said you know, we're going to have to just use people affiliated with UNC. And I wrote her back and said I understand why you're having to do that, but dog on it. It was so cool to sit in a room with a whole bunch of people from all different majors, all different walks of life, and the one thing we had in common was that we spoke Spanish, so that helped me keep my skills up.

Jamey Cook:

And then I graduated in 2010 and got wrote to and spoke with my mentors and said hey, i'm between grad school and my first job. Would this be a good time to get a guide dog? And they absolutely emphatically said yes. So I was flown to Morristown, new Jersey, the campus of the Seeing Eye, and Met Abner two weeks later And he retired in 2018, or well, 2017, i guess it was And then I was matched with my successor dog Russell, in September of that year, so they actually got to meet each other, which is cool.

Mireya Perez:

Oh, that is cool. How lovely. Eventually, you went from in-person at these medical settings into OPI over the phone, interpreting. Walk us through how that came to be and how this has changed things for you in terms of being able to continuously provide this service up until this day.

Jamey Cook:

Well, i want people to have a good experience, you know, with a helpful, professional interpreter, no matter the modality, and secondly, i did not have to walk people through why I needed this equipment or that And I could work from home. So after I got Abner and then it was 2011, it was about six months after well, six months after I graduated, i was literally looking on Craigslist and I found a job working Pacific night shift for Pacific interpreters And I thought, huh, this ought to be interesting, because I'd worked primarily day shift sorts of things before And I did indeed learn things there that I could not have learned working day shift, and I was able to pick up some day shift hours when they were busier as well. So I got to know a lot of great people. They were very understanding And so, sadly, they got bought out by LanguageLine in 2013.

Jamey Cook:

But to anybody who knew me from Pacific, i really enjoyed my time working there And then In grad school again, i was having to produce my own braille, and although if I needed a book scanned or a braille, a test braille, they would do that, but I loved teaching but just didn't quite have enough collaboration to make a go of it. And it was me chasing one accessibility challenge only to be confronted with another, such as the campus email system was not very accessible And I was using a server that I had access to from my travels And then I got locked out of the server and couldn't reach the lesson plans that I'd made and things like that. But then so after I got out of college with my masters, i thought, gee, what am I going to do? and then landed this interpreting gig and my mom kept up with a lot of publications And, of course, being a medical librarian, and was able to send me something on the medical certification, and I took the training through the Charlotte Ahek, so traveled with Abner at that time.

Jamey Cook:

It's such a blessing I can take Amtrak from here to Charlotte. I'm in Chapel Hill now well, carbureau, a suburb of Chapel Hill And it was really interesting to be able to pick up and travel like that, and a guide dog again is a huge help in unfamiliar environments.

Mireya Perez:

So you did your training and then where did you get your certification?

Jamey Cook:

So I think I took the written test in Raleigh and I took the oral in Charlotte again, and Abner was famous for snoozing through all those. In fact, at one point I was recording and he was, you know, dream, barking woof, woof, woof, and I thought no, that's going to give the greater something fun to listen to. But anyway, so, yes, and again, in a testing situation, they don't like to allow any technology that they don't recognize. So I took a picture of a tablet similar to the one I have on my desk here a couple of models ago And they said, oh, you can't use that. And it's like okay, i really can't, but there are switches that I can turn off for not accessing the internet, for not accessing Wi-Fi or Bluetooth. You know why? Because on a Slate and stylus you produce Braille one dot at a time. On a Perkins Braille writer or Perkins style keyboard, such as the ones I have on my Braille display for my computer or this tablet, you produce Braille a character at a time, so you're able to hit several keys at once, and it's just more efficient, i find. So when I go into a testing environment, i have to be very well prepared, because I have to use my memory more than I ordinarily would you know and really be able to pick out, okay, what are the testers looking for here? And so you know, for instance, there was a medical thing where they were giving a phone number and I realized, okay, they want accurate interpretation of this phone number. And then the site translation section.

Jamey Cook:

At the time I was certified they did not have a simultaneous section. So I was talking with a friend who I had met through the roundtable list, which is a list for blind interpreters, translators and their interested professors. She was out in California and I said, hey, what do you do for site translation? And she told me about a lawsuit that had gone through from a person from a different country. This was pre-2016, pre-ueb United English Braille, when each English-speaking country had its own Braille code. So in this precedent, the person had come from a different country, was given something in Grade II Braille which was the contracted or short form Braille code used in the United States at that time, and sued because he couldn't read it.

Jamey Cook:

And so I couldn't just say to the testing agency okay, i need you to contact Metrolina Agency for the Blind and have somebody Braille print this for me, emboss it. It's the formal title of how you say, print something out in Braille. So I was like, oh my goodness, this is not good. And so I was asking Anna, what do I do? when she said, well, you're going to usually replace it with a simultaneous, another simultaneous section, so I'm going okay. So, in other words, i'm going to have to do the site translation from the proctor reading to me, and I knew we were going to run out of time. I just knew it because it was several paragraphs And we had some trouble with the software at the beginning. And sure enough, i lost like 12 points on that section. And it was just irksome, because had I had it in Braille, I would not have messed up so much.

Mireya Perez:

Yeah, which brings up the issue of accessibility for a lot of these opportunities. Right, if you could sit on a panel which I'm certain that by now it potentially already exists of some sorts? right, but if you could sit on a panel for these certifying bodies for interpreting? I love the fact that there's a round table, by the way, of blind interpreters and translators, which I'm sure has produced significant amount of discussions around this topic. But for those that are listening to this for the first time and sort of imagining how these services could potentially be more accessible, what would you say in terms of an individual that would be coming in with the same needs as you yourself and your experience? What would be those certain factors that they should be looking out for to make this more accessible?

Jamey Cook:

Number one, cut through the red tape at the testing centers and make sure that people get the accommodations they asked for as close as you can get. So, for instance, another totally blind friend of mine in the field of computer science had indicated to the testing agency okay, I need a reader to sit at the computer and read me the written test and click the mouse. And he showed up and they said, oh, we've got a great big monitor for you.

Jamey Cook:

And he said I'm totally blind, it's not going to help me. So he'd probably already paid the testing fee and ended up having to cancel last minute because the inappropriate accommodations were in place. The testing centers make me take a picture of a Braille tablet or a Braille display or something that I am much more, as I say, efficient at using, and if you see a keyboard they don't recognize and they say, oh, you can't use this. So the testing centers need to educate themselves about what is out there, about the fact that most Braille displays are slave devices, which means they plug into a computer and work through a screen reader. Nowadays some Braille displays have a scratchpad function, but again, there's a way to turn that off. So that's huge.

Jamey Cook:

I actually know of a fellow interpreter who requested a reader and I don't know how they got Armenian interpreter out of reader, but this very nice Armenian interpreter ended up reading her the test. You know, if I had my brothers, i would love testing centers to have screen reading technology on board that was kept up to date, at at least one computer per regional site at a minimum. Same for magnification software, same for if a dyslexic person needs Kurzweil 3000 to scan and read program. You know, whatever People, just they need to try to learn about what's out there and that. No, i am not going to go into a testing environment and try to cheat or something. That's just not who I am And I understand the logic of why certain technologies are not allowed in, but if people you know, after I took the certification exam, for instance, someone was able to take it with an iPad And I said, wait a minute, that's not entirely fair because I was made to bring in a slight and stylus.

Jamey Cook:

So that's the huge piece. The other piece, which I actually had the pleasure and honor to participate in in the beginning, was the one of the folks who was really in charge of the CMI, nbcmi exam, reached out to me and said could you help talk us through? You know, could you get to know these other candidates with visual impairment, see what they're going to need, and we'll schedule a time and you, i and the candidate will meet and we'll talk through potential accommodations. And I did get to help a few people and that was really amazing. That's amazing, but I cannot tell you how frustrating it is to deal with a testing center, not just a proctor The proctor were really great but the actual overseeing testing agency like ProMetric or something, and they don't have a clue what I need.

Mireya Perez:

Yeah, in addition to having these accessibility features for you in once, you're there as an interpreter now a certified interpreter and you're going out to sites, sometimes correct, tell us about the difficulties for you, particularly as you go out to different sites, in terms of accessibility, and what difficulties you have, not just with the language service providers that are giving you these assignments, but for you yourself getting to these assignments. walk us through those challenges So obviously I don't drive.

Jamey Cook:

The cops would get me off the road really quick if I tried. In fact, i fell in love with the Arby's commercial done by Ray Charles. For that reason It was just so perfect, he said oh, I'm just going to drive down to Arby's and get me a roast beef sandwich, so you better get off the road. And it's like, yes, way to poke a little fun. This is great, and that's the other thing I want to say is, people with disabilities love humor just as much as anybody else.

Jamey Cook:

And so. But anyway, getting back to the transportation aspect, i depend on paratransit or Uber or Lyft and paratransit I know I will have no problem getting a guide dog on board and getting to a place, but the pickup times have to be scheduled a minimum of 24 hours in advance. So if I get a city and a zip code from an agency that's not going to tell me the address, that's not going to tell me landmarks, that's not going to tell me how many miles, and unfortunately, much like the cab discrimination that occurred in the 1980s and 90s, early 90s, we're seeing this similar discrimination from Uber and Lyft with service animals, which is they have a beautifully written policy that service dogs will be accepted, but certain drivers will pull up and say, oh well, my family's allergic to dogs, i can't take you, you'll have to call for someone else. Well, obviously, if I do that too often and end up being late, then I have agencies frustrated at me And I've been blessed not to have too many of those encounters. But I was made aware recently that there are a couple of numbers that you can call if you have service dog problems with that discrimination, which is good. But Sunday edition from the American Council of the Blind is a podcast and a few episodes ago they went through the fact that it really is best to not just accept a refund from Lyft or whatever remedy as the sole remedy, but to write a complaint on the Department of Justice website. And right now, as was the case in the cab discrimination in the 80s, we're going to get a letter that says you know we can't get to this case right now, but they were encouraging. Keep those letters And one day, when they've got enough cases on their desk, they will see this and they will start work on it. So but then. So that's the local travel piece. Now to conferences and such.

Jamey Cook:

Because people tried to bring peacocks, iguanas and other animals onto airplanes, there is now a required form And the time of which it has to be completed is not consistent across airlines. So some want it 30 days in advance, some want it three days in advance. Your vet has to fill out a portion stating that your service dog is a legitimate service dog and is well behaved and doesn't have rabies, and blah, blah, blah, blah. And it has really caused problems for the blindness community And the schools. In fact, begged the, the TSA and others not to do this Because, for instance, there was a social media post shared widely recently, of an undergraduate student who had planned a spring break trip And there was a code entered in the computer that was not fixable And they had denied her the ability to fly with her dog.

Jamey Cook:

So they gave her the choice of getting on the flight without her dog or not taking the flight. And I just want you out there to imagine that you'd planned a really important trip Maybe it was a business meeting, maybe it was a conference And all of a sudden you literally can't board the plane. I don't believe in lawsuits generally, but that just made me sick Because that should not have happened to this young woman. And I have one of my mentors. In fact, his wife is a cane traveler. She was able to board the plane, he was not. So this is not a one off thing. And we were talking about this the other day and he said you know, the organization that has put out this form is seeing the iguanas and the peacocks not getting on the plane.

Jamey Cook:

We are just an unfortunate you know, not flying with our dogs, it's just an unfortunate consequence of a wider decision. So it's been very different to try and navigate that landscape And I've been very grateful to COVID for virtual conferencing, particularly for people going to zoom, because I can actually use the chat feature, go to webinar and others. I think any meeting is the only audio conference software that I know of that's accessible, and yet I did not hear of the FCC even considering the accessibility of video conferencing until about a week ago, and they're actually actually finally going to hold a meeting about it. And I'm sitting there thinking why didn't this happen 15 years ago? Wow, yeah.

Jamey Cook:

So when I'm attending webinars, there's an organization I frequently attend webinars through and it's frustrating because I have to sit there like a bump on a log if I can't think of the questions ahead of time to email. And then the PowerPoints that are presented in webinars my screen reader treats them like video. So in other words, i have no access to any of the information coming across the screen in the PowerPoint, and I was very frustrated with a recent webinar. I was delighted when the presenter said she was going to share her slides because she was deliberately skipping over a lot of information And I have run into some some situations and I've I've made organizations aware of this, but a quiz question that can only be answered by viewing something on the slide, and in fact I'm in another group that's not related to interpreting and I had to reach out and say, hey, the screen reader treats this as video. So could the presenters please send me their slides either before or after the presentation? And it's great because it gives me a chance to just glance through And I just I do that.

Jamey Cook:

I use it for my own personal viewing and then off the computer it goes, i don't keep it or anything, i just view it and get rid of it because I know how important copyright is being being a librarian's daughter, but, yeah, an understanding that that would be super helpful. Also, i had to do a drag and drop to match sort of activity for a what do they call that continuing computer based learning kind of thing, and I said you know, there is a drag and drop keystroke with a screen reader. But I ended up actually getting my mother was visiting and she I said, okay, i need you to help me with this And she ended up having to move the mouse for me because the drag and drop keystrokes. We call it keyboard simulation, mouse Mouse simulation is the correct term, excuse me where you're using keys on the keyboard to do what the mouse does, because somebody who's totally blind operates a computer without being able to use either the mouse or the monitor. It's all coming from the keyboard.

Mireya Perez:

What has OPI been able to do for you as a certified interpreter, Jamie? that, like you just mentioned earlier, you know, thankful it through the COVID situation that you're now able to do some of this, some of this stuff on remotely So what has. OPI done for you with your particular ability.

Jamey Cook:

I have been able to take up contract positions and I've actually had really well one, really bad experience. I was employed full time by a certain organization for a few weeks last summer and They did send me an accessible laptop and Braille display. But I pulled the Braille display out of the box and I thought, oh my goodness, what brand is this thing? I've never seen one like it. Then, in talking with human resources, i said did you guys know that this needs to be cleaned every three years At minimum? oh no, and I'm thinking, oh great, this is going to die on me. In fact, there was a strange policy that a client had where, basically, they wanted people not to be able to ever be able to look back at notes they had taken And because of the scratch pad application I had mentioned, there were some problems there and I ended up returning to contractor status. So it has allowed me to take notes in the most efficient way that I can. It has allowed me to be professional and give people again a good, helpful experience over the phone, and it has also allowed me to be in a level playing field with other interpreters. They're usually expecting someone who can do audio interpretation and, although video is happening more often. In fact, i had a full-time position from about August 2016 through round Labor Day of 2018. That was just wonderful And there was trust. I mean, they provided accommodations, but there was also a lot of trust. So if I said to my team lead hey, i'm not feeling well, i need to go take some medicine, i will be back in 20 minutes I would get OK because they knew that I was dependable And I think it can be too easy for A me to be chasing accessibility challenges or, b an organization to be very concerned about what they can and cannot ask me And that can create unnecessary barriers. And to those out there who are language service providers, who hire interpreters, i just want to emphasize to you that candidates with disabilities can be marvelous employees and just talk to us about what we need and be able to ask what do you need and mean it And when you follow through, there's going to be a good result.

Jamey Cook:

But basically, i have not had with the OPI. I've not had all the transportation challenges so much. I've been able to choose my working hours, which is nice because I have other appointments with clients sometimes And it's good to be able to work around those. But I am trying to build up my simultaneous because there were certain agencies that I checked into who said we really need someone who can do simultaneous. And it hit me hard when I had to turn down actually an assignment from ACB, the American Council of the Blind, i had somebody who remembered me from goodness gracious, 10 years ago I think, and she said, hey, can you do this? Wow, i was like I'm so sorry, i'm just not quite there yet, but I will find you an interpreter. And so I contacted, actually a young woman who was my roommate at the IMA conference in Miami 10 years ago and said help. And so she was able to help them because they were kind of getting down to the wire and I felt bad that I couldn't do as much. So I'm open to receiving more tips on how to polish my simultaneous skills And I have found a speech pool.

Jamey Cook:

But often the challenge I run into is I can interpret over the phone or I can listen to the screen reader, so I have to devote specific time to gee that term that I kind of got close to but wasn't perhaps as accurate as I could have been. I need to spend a few minutes And while my time as a full-time employee I got a great list of resources that were reliable from the internet And I'm always open to receiving more suggestions there. But in fact I was really excited to see about article that Giovanna Lester published recently about how to find European legal terminology in seconds. But then, oh, how cool is this? And then the other side of me is going hmm, i wonder how accessible this database is. So it's always a two-sided coin.

Jamey Cook:

But OPI I'm free to be myself, and the organization where I was working full-time in those three years started having a lot of VRI positions come up, and I have since been able to look at VRI manuals and different things and go, oh my goodness, this definitely requires vision. So my hope is that there will always be a place for OPI in the industry and that folks won't move as far towards video. I mean, i could totally understand it with something like ASL or maybe the physical therapy appointment where a client has shown exercises And it would be helpful to have the video. But I love interpreting over the phone, because I just show up at the other end of that phone line And people are happy and thankful And often I get a good dose of perspective which keeps me humble, so we all need that every once in a while.

Mireya Perez:

Every once in a while. Absolutely, jamie. If you had the opportunity to share with potentially other individuals that might be going through some of the challenges that you initially went through as you embarked on your journey into this profession, what would you share with them? What resources would you give them Or what advice would you give them that you've now learned along the way, looking back and your experiences? What would you say to them?

Jamey Cook:

Well, similar to other interpreters, i would say get in touch with your local association and try to find transportation to local events or, if you can work out if there's a listserv or a group chat or something that you can get on to find rides to conferences. And also totally think about getting certified, because that's what's going to bring the profession forward. I think, and in fact right now, right before I found your podcast, i'd gone through a period of discouragement because I felt like I was kind of in the same place I'd been 10 years ago And I'm a committed Christian and the Holy Spirit said okay, what are you going to do about it? And so I set myself a goal of making a few professional contacts And, like I said, one day I was just sitting around and I was like what, if there are any interpreting podcasts out there? and lo and behold, i found you. So also, you know, broaden your horizons a little bit. I'm thinking I'm running into more like attorney client calls and things where I'm needing to learn more legal interpreting, to be accurate.

Jamey Cook:

So, for instance, i took a course on DUI terminology and not two weeks later there was an incident that literally occurred in the front yard of my apartment. I'm very thankful that nobody got hurt and everything is okay and they just had to replace a light pole. But there was an individual who couldn't put on his brakes in time because he wasn't. He was impaired while driving and I was joking with the local police officer. You know I just took a course two weeks ago to refresh myself on this terminology. Had no idea this was going to happen.

Mireya Perez:

This is not what I was planning on using my new Something right in my front yard, but.

Jamey Cook:

But my neighbor saw this guy and got him to roll down his window and said Espanyol, and he nodded and so she brought me out to make sure he was okay, first of all. But you know, i I've here that there's an upcoming education certification. Well, i have an elementary school that is just about within a walking distance from here. I would have to learn exactly where it is, but I know the general direction of how to get there. So I'm thinking about that. And then I am working with a friend who needed work and I had a braille transcription project that needed doing. So I have often wondered if I could, should, go into braille transcription. I've dabbled in translation and realized that a lot of the editing and such is just going to take me a lot more time.

Jamey Cook:

And I was a language skills interpreter for an attorney back in my marital college days. So I was, you know, exposed to the sitting across the glass from the guy on the phone reading the presensing agreement and different things. So at the time it really gave me pause because I had next to no background in legal and I was doing legal translation, I was interpreting, and I thought, oh my goodness, i need to get my skills up to speed before I jump back into this. So just keep an open mind, try as hard as you can to get out of your comfort zone. I've been there, and when discouragement strikes and you want to be where you're comfortable and being too comfortable, as a bishop once said, is not where a Christian needs to stay, and I think that goes for any human being you need to jump out of your comfort zone, even if it's slowly crawling out of your comfort zone. So all of this stuff that is common sense, but take some time to sink in.

Mireya Perez:

What would you say to the conference organizers for you know national state events for specifically in the interpreting profession, when it comes to creating accessibility for colleagues that have a different ability, Well, I love.

Jamey Cook:

I just I'm going to peg sign language interpreters for a moment. I love the fact that you guys are available at so many events. That's terrific. Now, if I have attended conferences where I asked for the handouts ahead of time and I got them and that was fabulous. The other thing, again going back to the on screen stuff just not always translating There are sometimes event codes at conferences that again show on the screen but are not verbalized to me. So I attended show up last, the Children's Healthcare of Atlanta, and I had to bring to the presenters attention. Hey, i'm going to need somebody to verbalize these codes so that I can write them down.

Jamey Cook:

And also I have found it very helpful in a completely unfamiliar environment to have maybe someone who's attending similar workshops who could just kind of check in with me every once in a while. I'm fairly independent with the guide dog, but I'm in an unfamiliar building and I have not had the time to go in ahead of time and click or train the dog to locate certain doors. Or, you know, talk about how the building is laid out. That's nice And you know finding roommates who are willing to to spend some time you know, bonus with me when, when any of my dogs come out of harness their great big puppies, and when they're in an unfamiliar environment, it's important to build in a little playtime. Just being aware of little things that could be super helpful. Or, you know, pointing people towards the gluten free. I'm gluten free Now. I've found it helpful to deal with some chronic pain, so I'm pointing people.

Jamey Cook:

You know, one of the my favorite moments from that 2013 conference was a sign language interpreter coming up to me saying Where can I take you? and I was still remember. I was balancing my braille tablet and the little you know tote bag you get at a conference and a lunchbox on one arm, well, tentatively urging my dog forward because I had to hold his harness with my other hand. And it was like, yes, i need to go somewhere quiet where I can have a phone, a phone conversation and eat my lunch. And so we went up the elevator and I felt bad because I made her late for her meeting. So you know, darn, i'm sorry, but she said, oh, they'll, they'll totally understand.

Mireya Perez:

Yeah, i'm sure that was a relief. I bet Yeah, and I think it teaches us as well as we're in these conferences, to sort of be more present, right and be aware of our surroundings and that individual doing that, she would have not seen that. you know, maybe you could right you could need some help And so being able to offer that help that she and absolutely ask someone.

Jamey Cook:

Asking before doing is hugely important, and that piece of advice goes out to people at conferences, but also to parents of blind children. No matter how hard your kids complain, no matter how much work it takes If you have a child who is not learning Braille but their vision is getting worse. Advocate, advocate, advocate. The National Association for Parents of the Visually Impaired is out there for a reason. Maybe you don't have a local chapter, maybe you need to establish one, but don't be afraid to reach out And don't be afraid to ask. You know, do you? would you like me to put a straw in your cup or would you like me to describe what's on the buffet line, or whatever? ask and be open.

Jamey Cook:

Another thing that is super helpful for folks who are visually impaired is to describe your photos on social media, and I've actually been known to unfollow groups and things if there are constant undescribed photos. And it doesn't have to be elaborate. You know you've heard of the Facebook algorithm, for instance. That is very generalized. For instance, they'll say photo may contain food, or photo may contain person, child and sunglasses, or person and beard. It's very basic. So even in your comments, just you know, you can write capital P, capital B, colon you know photo description and then say young woman is sitting next to a German shepherd on the grass And he's smiling for the camera or whatever, just enough to let those who cannot see the photo know what's going on. And I have a church friend who's particularly good at it And I love the photo she puts up of her pets because she is super creative and always comes up with adorable descriptions. But any description is appreciated, so that's super important.

Mireya Perez:

That's the simple things. If you could give some words of encouragement to anyone that is walking particularly your similar path, what would those words of encouragement be? Perhaps it's a new generation of language professionals with different abilities. What would those words of encouragement be to them?

Jamey Cook:

Again, learn to advocate for yourself. Learn exactly what accommodations you need And don't settle for less. Be open, even though it's very tiring at times and very frustrating at times, to educating the public about what you need. And maybe even try to find some local Braille transcribers, because maybe you're in college and you wanna take up a second language but you need a textbook And it's gonna take a good six months or more to transcribe a book with fewer errors. Braille transcription just like translation.

Jamey Cook:

If you run into a rushed job, okay, yeah, we'll get it done, but it's and I'm not a certified Braille transcriber, i'm just being from experience with what others have told me. They'll get it done, but it may be full of errors because the turnaround time is so quick And Lord knows, that's not the product people wanna put out there. And also check with your disability services office if you're at a university and ask if there's a club for students with different abilities or if there is another visually impaired student on campus I mean, who knows, you could be study buddies. You could call them up and say I've had a really hard day because there's this construction and it was hard to get around, but it's been such a blessing as, speaking of construction, the local joke is UNC stands for the University of Neverending Construction And one of the reasons I loved working a guide dog is that they can help you go around a construction site. And but I remember being on campus before. I was a guide dog traveler. I was a cane traveler for 20 years And again going back to teachers and parents of blind children, mobility skills big time. Can your student or child get from point A to point B reliably, whether that's within an elementary school building or from one building to another on a high school campus, or can they describe to a sighted classmate? okay, i'm going to need you to do sighted guide and you need to stand half a step in front of me. I will take your elbow and we need to walk down to the vocational building or whatever.

Jamey Cook:

Being assertive is so important and just knowing being willing to reach out and find a peer group or a mentor or any of these other things And admit when you need help. Sometimes that's easier said than done. I mean, as an undergrad goodness knows how many books I ended up. They had some custom textbooks and I ended up having to scan books And I would often ask a classmate who had not written in their book. Can I borrow your book for about two days and I'll get it back to you before Friday. I just need to scan in these readings that we're going to have to do. So, you know, build, whether it's a study buddy system, whether it's a peer network, whether it's reaching out to other professionals just go for it. You know, be open to new possibilities.

Mireya Perez:

I love that such great advice. Jamie, it has been an absolute pleasure speaking with you today and learning from you and how we, as language professionals, can help each other, no matter what our backgrounds, no matter what our abilities, and I appreciate you so very much for coming on this show to sharing your story and just sharing your information with all of our listeners. Thank you so much. Thank you so much.

Jamey Cook:

This has been so much fun. Please recording started. Stop recording button, all followed by S, one sound. I wanted to add in, though this device is an efficient means of creating Braille. the Perkins Brailler is very loud, so not ideal for phone interpreting.

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