A Respected Profession with Jessie Liu

Can you imagine being told by a fortune teller that you would have a career in speaking and then actually making it happen? That's the story of Jessie Liu, a court-certified Mandarin interpreter, conference interpreter, and advocate for the T&I profession. Join us as we explore her fascinating journey from growing up in a family of musicians to becoming a highly skilled interpreter, overcoming language barriers, and even boldly moving to England at the age of 14 with no English language skills.

As Jessie recalls her experiences in England, Singapore, and eventually California, we delve into the cultural differences she encountered and the challenges she faced in adjusting to new environments, learning English, and finding her true calling in interpreting. We also discuss the power of language and translation, and how her unique background allowed her to embrace both Eastern and Western cultures.

Finally, Jessie shares her passion for language advocacy and interpreter respect, discussing the proposed bill AB 432 and its potential impact on the interpreting profession. We explore the importance of upholding certain standards and actively engaging in advocacy for our profession, whether it's through writing to senators and assembly members, having conversations with colleagues, or setting boundaries and standards in our own practice. Don't miss this insightful conversation with Jessie Liu as we uncover her incredible story, commitment to education and career growth, and dedication to supporting the interpreting profession.

Only on the podcast that shares your stories about our profession. Brand the Interpreter.
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Connect with Jessie Liu
http://www.jessieliuinterpreting.com
https://www.linkedin.com/in/jessiezliu/
Twitter: @JessieLiu28
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👉 Orange County Department of Education 7th Annual Interpreters and Translators Conference - September 29th and 30th - at the Hilton Orange County/Costa Mesa in Costa Mesa, California

Conference registration site link: https://link.ocde.us/ITC2023
Conference flyer: ITC2023FLYER

Join them this Fall at the 2023 Interpreters and Translators Conference to continue your professional learning and networking! Registration is now open!
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👉 ATA Opposes AB 432 Unless Amended - ACT NOW!

Transcript

California Interpreters. Have you heard about AB 432? Hi, I am Jessie Liu, a court-certified interpreter here in California. This bill would create a second class of court interpreters and undermine efforts to improve pay rates and working conditions. It could have serious consequences on all interpreters across our state. Meaningful language access for our diverse communities hangs in the balance. Act now Tap the ATA link in the show notes for more information. Let's raise our voices together.

Speaker 1: Welcome back language professionals from around the world. Thank you for joining me today on another episode of the Brand The Interpreter podcast. Today, I have the opportunity to bring you the story of Jessie Liu, a freelance court-certified Mandarin interpreter in the state of California. A year into interpreting in the courtrooms, Jessie went back to school to train as a conference interpreter. Upon graduating with a master's degree in conference interpreting from the Middlebury Institute of International Studies at Monterey in 2021, Jessie has since been actively serving clients in both legal and conference settings. In addition to holding periodic workshops on court interpreting, jesse also teaches the English and Chinese court interpreting program at UCLA Extension.

When Jessie isn't doing her interpreting or teaching work, she is an active advocate of the T&I profession by volunteering her time at the American Translators Association. She is currently serving on the ATA's Strategy Committee and the ATA's Membership Committee. She has recently nominated to run for one of the three vacant director seats on the ATA's Board of Directors. Jesse is also on the leadership council of the Chinese Language Division of the ATA. She hosts the Chinese Language Division podcast, in which she invites professionals in the T&I field to talk about the most important and trending issues. So, without further ado, please help me welcome this week's guest interpreter, Jessie Liu, to the show. Jessie, thank you so much for joining us here today on Brand, the Interpreter. Thank you for being here.

Speaker 2: Thank you so much for having me, Mireya.

Speaker 1: Absolutely. It's always a joy to be able to connect with language professionals that are in different specialty areas, particularly those that aren't quite as common coming on the podcast, and so I'm excited for today's conversation. Thanks again.

Speaker 2: I am also excited to really talk to everybody and share a little bit of what I have gone through so far in my professional endeavor.

Speaker 1: So far, Yeah, and a bunch of great stories. I think is what you're going to end up sharing with us, beginning with if you would be so kind as to sharing the story about how a fortune teller came to be in your childhood. What was that story about?

Speaker 2: Yes, that is an interesting story, isn't it? So I remember when I was growing up, my mom once had a friend of hers who was trying to be a fortune teller. So she came to our house and she looked at me. She said what do you want to be when you grow up? And I said I don't really know. I mean, i was like eight or nine. Who knew You know at that age Exactly? So she looked at me and she said I think you're going to make a living talking. And at that moment nobody thought I was ever going to become an interpreter. And we thought maybe I was going to become like a lawyer or a teacher who talk a lot and make a living doing that. But no, i'm not a lawyer, i'm not a teacher Well, i'm partially a teacher. But I think that fortune teller is right on, I am talking for a living.

Speaker 1: She was actually okay. Maybe she stayed in that business, huh?

Speaker 2: Yes, I would definitely go and say, yes, she's right on about what I am doing now.

Speaker 1: That is too funny, Jessie. Talk to us a little bit more about your childhood, actually. Share with us where you grew up and what a fond childhood memory of yours is.

Speaker 2: Yeah, well, you know, being an interpreter or translator has never really entered my career plan, or, like the little mind of mine. It's that I grew up in a family of musicians. My mom used to be a Chinese opera singer. My dad my dad is a classical music composer, so they really wanted me to become like a professional pianist. So before I was even born, my dad got me this piano already at home waiting for me to play. So I think the piano got to my home a year before I got to my home.

Speaker 1: Wow Yeah.

Speaker 2: So I started very early because my dad is a pianist himself and he writes music. He started me on piano when I was about two and a half or three years old, so he was my first teacher in piano. So I did that until I was in my early teenage years And that was when I left China to England, actually, and that was when I stopped practicing piano every day. But prior to that point they were really trying to have me get on this music path because that's really what they thought I was going to do And I was quite good at it. I was not really enjoying it.

Speaker 2: There was a lot of. There was a lot of crying, a lot of tears, a lot of practice hours, so dry and so boring. But you know, that's what the parents wanted me to do. So that's what I did until I left China when I was about 14. I stopped practicing every day. I still do now as a hobby, which is great. I don't feel the pain anymore because I pick up like a score sheet of my favorite songs and I'll just play on the piano.

Speaker 2: It's very relaxing, therapeutic almost now that it's not, like you know, expected right now. Now you enjoy it because, yeah, because yeah, that it's kind of like a pastime,

Speaker 1: Aside from dreaming about a Snickers house, so that you can take a bite out of it, what were you thinking in your childhood? That you do enjoy, or that you did enjoy? Do you recall?

Speaker 2:  Well growing up I spent so much time practicing piano I really didn't have a lot of free time, So I guess my standard was quite low at that time. Just be able to watch TV for an hour or two a day or be able to not practice piano during the weekend was like biggest dream of mine for a good while. And yeah, and I love candies and I love chocolate bars I still do So.

Speaker 2: When Snickers first went to China, it was very expensive And whenever I did something good and I would ask my mom for a reward and a Snickers bar would be my reward. And so that's why I dreamt about having a whole house made of Snickers bars And I was just like, ah, what, if, what, if I could just turn over in my sleep and then take a bite of my pillows or in my blanket and that would be like Snickers bar, so yummy. And I also thought having like a tab or a faucet if I just turn it on, like orange juice would flow out of it. I mean it sounds a bit grim, but that was my childhood dream.

Speaker 1: Hey, you know what Willy Wonka had it.  So you, weren't too far off. Why not? Oh, I love us.

Speaker 1: Best story ever, Jessie. you ended up going you just mentioned around the age of 14 to England. Can you share what took you to England? Was it schooling?

Speaker 2: Yes, it was schooling My mom back then in China. It was before going overseas to go to school was a thing, and my mom thought, yeah, maybe we could send her to England to learn English. And it was a very bold move, because I did not speak any English when I was 14. So my mom decided that it would be good for me to get on a plane by myself for the first time of my life, traveling four or five thousand miles away from home on my own, to a country that I spoke no language of and understood nothing of. And there I went to England.

Speaker 1: What was waiting for you over there. You had a family out there that are like a host family, or how does that work?

Speaker 2: I guess it wasn't really an established pathway for students like me back then. I think it's a lot more established now, where there is like an agency or like a middle person that you go through And that person is likely to put all these like services together for you to arrive and check you into, like you're either a hotel or an apartment for you to stay in for the time being. But while I was there, you know, we really didn't know anything because it was a very much new thing And my mom didn't know anything about this, and so she simply found this person that was through some friends. Obviously she was not completely strangers to, to my mom or myself, so my mom trusted her and she said, yeah, well, so she helped me and got the visas And I was able to go to England. And then she told me that her husband, who is an English gentleman, who was going to pick me up from the airport, but my plane was delayed And there was no way to communicate with them like we do now, because back then you know that was about I must have been 20, 20 some years ago, 25, 23, 24 years ago. So, communication, you know phones they didn't have smartphones And you know, the people were still using your public phones or pay phones to call, or they were mostly using pagers back then. So there was no communication, and so her husband did not know my plane was getting in late And I definitely had zero idea.

Speaker 2: So the moment I landed I didn't know who to look for. I didn't speak any English, i just I didn't know what to do. I was lost. But you know what? I was 14. I had a lot of cash in my pocket. I felt free, it's like oh yes, i took my bags And then I checked myself into like a hotel near the airport And I spent one night there for them to figure out what was happening. And finally there was some communication reestablished between my mom and the lady And then she eventually told her husband And her husband had to drive again from maybe, maybe 60, 70 miles away to come to pick me up. So finally I was able to meet up with him And he got me to where I was going to school, and that was it.

Speaker 1: Your first experience of being in a foreign place with a foreign language. That was like your first experience

Speaker 2: I did not really speak much English back then, amazing.

Speaker 1: And yet you navigated somehow and it worked out. What did that experience do? How did that expand your world once you got there and saw the difference? Because and saw the difference between the culture and, obviously, the language and all of that. What did that do for you internally, as far as comparing where you came from, your home and what you were used to as opposed to what you were seeing, do you recall?

Speaker 2: I don't remember much, however. I was only 14. So I felt, cognitively I was not in the very perceptive place of seeing these differences culturally, how these languages are different and how people act differently. I was very much concerned with having my freedom. Now I don't have my parents watching over me and I have a pocket full of cash, just enjoying the freedom without knowing what to fear.

Speaker 2: So now, looking back at this hindsight, 2020, it's that sometimes when we grow into our adulthood, we start to fear so much And we have this saying in Chinese that a little calf, at first born, knows no fear of the tigers because you just don't know enough to be afraid And sometimes in life that is what it takes for you to make a breakthrough in things. So I kind of miss that part of me in a bit, but it's kind of unfortunate. Life grinds that out of you as you progress through different stages of life. I mean it's good and bad. But back to your question.

Speaker 2: The only thing I felt kind of different or odd was that people were very polite on the outside but they could still be not so accommodating or forgiving on the inside to like a foreign newcomer I would say. It's just that I felt alienated somewhat. But that feeling somehow went away as I assimilated myself more into the society, and the first step is by learning English. So that was very eye-opening to me. And I felt that well, if I speak like this, they're going to react in that way. If I speak like that, they're going to react in a different way.

Speaker 2: And that was when translation and interpreting first ticked off in my mind. I realized that if I want to say something, i formulate that thought in my mind first in Chinese And I speak it out in English. It doesn't really give me the response I was hoping to get. And then later on, as I got used to it, a part I forgot to mention was that during my studies in England I started to work part-time, so I got to face more with, like everyday people, more customers coming in who are just English, and I was able to interact with them more. And from that interaction I was able to learn a lot. I don't really know exactly like I cannot put it to words what I learned, but it's that influence, that subtle, you know cultural influence and how it comes through language, and it made me realize that language is so much more than just words and expresses so much more than just words.

Speaker 1: That's great. I really love that. I think that there's much to say with regards to the language aspect in connection with the cultural aspect and visa versa, And you know there's so intricately connected. And those are the moments, like experiences in the story, such as what you just shared, where, you know, it puts things into perspective and how they're interconnected. How long were you in England? Walk us through basically your studies and when studying or thinking about, I should say, translation and interpreting started to come up in your life.

Speaker 2: Yeah, I stayed in England for about two years. Again, I emphasized the fact that I was a teenager. I wasn't exactly going to school every day because once I started working at my part time job I started making money. I realized that, wow, i have power. Now I have money. Coming in School, yeah, yes. So I started buying things with the money that I made working my part time job.

Speaker 2: I wasn't really going to school, so I mean, it's not something I'm extremely proud of, but I guess it's just. It's not you know the end of the world if you know a teenager skip school a few days of the week. But eventually my mom got words of it and she was not too happy, like, oh, i paid for you to go to school and you don't go to school and you go to work. So she wasn't too pleased about that and she wanted me to go home, back to China. And my dad said well, you know, she's already spent two years in England. If she comes back to China, all the English she has learned, how very little it may be, would eventually go to waste. Why don't we have her go somewhere closer by? and then there just happened to be a student exchange program between China and Singapore, so Singapore obviously being much closer to China and having 60% of their population being Chinese, and that became a much better choice at that point. So I was then geographically closer to my parents, much easier for monitoring and supervision, and also I would encounter a lot less problems, given that there is a big Chinese mix in their society. So that's where I went for the next four, actually five years, for which I spent in college or university.

Speaker 2: And well then I grew out of my teenage years and I realized that no more play now it's time to get serious. So I was able to get through school and eventually start working in Singapore, but this whole time, like I said, i was, you know, because I was raised to be a pianist and I played piano. So I went to an art school, a performing art school, and that's what I studied. So it was it's called performing arts management. So what I was studying to become was someone who manages the stage as for a show or a theatrical production.

Speaker 2: So you take care of the front end of the stage and the back end of the stage. So it's like very much like a production manager. It was quite fun. So, writing off of my piano background. That's what I did, and I also took some like economics and some financial classes, since you know, you're supposed to be a well rounded production manager, so it's not just the artistic side of it. You have to learn about economics and the money for the whole production to make financial sense. So that was my study in Singapore. Then I eventually got into working at one of the major theaters in Singapore for a year before I made my way to California.

Speaker 1: Wow, like what a difference there, but we're during these studies. Were you still practicing English? What was going on with the English language then? Yeah, what the school? 

Speaker 1: teaches their curriculums in English. So I was still able to make use of the language that I acquired in England And obviously I had much better attitude towards school and learning. I spent a lot more time with my books and schoolwork and my English was able to not slide, but at least, you know, go a little bit further. And then at that time I met my first significant other, and he is American. He was able to speak a lot in English and that really is a big help to how well my English has gotten. And I remember sometimes we would gotten to these arguments and I wanted to say so much to him out of like, my rage or out of my anger, but the words were not coming out and would tell him hold it right there, Let me look at my dictionary because I need to tell you off now. 

Speaker 2: I need to find the words to do so Not finding the words to properly express myself. 

Speaker 1: So funny, yeah, and it was back then, you know, we didn't have the iPhones, we didn't have like the digital dictionaries or everything. So like I had this really thick paper dictionary and I would just flip through the dictionary, so much. And now I finally understand what they mean by learning through doing, because I those words Oh, i just had to look them up once and I remember every single one of them till today. 

Speaker 2: You have your notepad with your, your glossary building of like. how to argue my husband? Yes. 

Speaker 1: Yes, how to win an argument when you have to. 

Speaker 2: I love it. You end up coming to California. You said it's, it's you, you, you met your future husband at that point and come to California. Is that's where? that's what he was reciting? He was a California, yeah, yeah yeah. I find a lot of a lot of stories like I think I need to travel abroad to find my future husband and where I was on here like find their significant other abroad. I love it. So what was the culture shock for you when you come from Singapore to California? 

Speaker 1: When we flew in, obviously he had already been in California for a very long time. He he was born and raised in Louisiana, new Orleans, louisiana but he later on moved to California to work. And so when we flew in together from Singapore, i looked at as the plane was approaching the airport. It was getting lower and lower and, having coming from Singapore just right after you know, right before this flight and getting used to the concrete, and then to see the big, tall buildings, very modern cities, and then seeing the center of LA, lax and with only a few buildings and like will share over there, i was like this is not the LA that I pictured. Can I please go back? This is not. No, this is not the same as I see in the movies. Where did you take me? 

Speaker 2: I only show, like the first though, the only five buildings. That's all they show. It could seem like it's a lot. 

Speaker 1: And the plane was coming in And I looked at him. I was in disbelief. I said, no, this is not, this is not Los Angeles Is it couldn't be. And so he obviously saw that I was not pleased with what LA had to offer at that moment. So out of the plane he took me to Santa Monica. He's like, no, no, good stuff over here. We've got, you know, a nice, a big fairs wheel and we have nice pier lights and then people walking around shops at the promenade. I was like This is looking a bit more like it, okay. 

Speaker 1: And then we left Santa Monica, went back to South Bay area And I was like, oh, no, this is not, this is not cool. That was, that was the biggest impact. But you know what, culturally, i don't think I went through as big of a shock as I did when I first got to England, only because I had almost seven or eight years of, you know, western kind of, or at least a mixture of western and eastern life or cultural background already in me. So I expected some differences but nothing major. And obviously, as I got myself here and started to, you know, live my life here, i realized that, okay, there is somewhat differences, but nothing major, so it's not it's not as bad. 

Speaker 2: It wasn't bad. Well, thank goodness for that. Yeah, 2017, you became a certified court interpreter. Yes, I did Talk to us about what led you towards that specific specialization and career choice, after coming from Singapore and having worked, as you know, with theatrical production and all that Walk us through these choices of yours. 

Speaker 1: Yeah, it's another long story. So what? when I first came here, i wanted to go further in school. Having the background in arts and in management I would like to pursue like a graduate degree. And my husband then told me that, well, you know, why don't you check out these two schools? I said, what two schools is that? there's UCLA, there's USC. And I said, did you say those are good schools? and he said, yeah, they're very good schools. I said I've never heard of them. They're not good schools. And he said Well, why don't you pass your judgment after you go visit the school? I'm like, fine, let's go visit the schools. 

Speaker 1: So we went and I basically was told the same thing that because the education system that I was in was very much British And so the credit that I had already didn't really transfer, so in order for me to pursue a further level of degree, i would have to make up some more credits in order for me to become eligible. 

Speaker 1: It turned out that the transferable credits that I had from my previous studies were only enough to get me through maybe a quarter of what I needed, and at that moment I figured well then, if it's only so little, why don't I just start on something new instead of pursuing the same thing. So I decided to pursue psychology And I got accepted by UCLA doing psychology major two years after that, because every day, you know, i remember going to school with a with a very thick, thick book. I think it's called DSM, for it listed all the psychological disorders in that book. So instead of paying attention to the lectures, i was looking through the book every day, trying to see what psychological disorders that I have, and that was driving me crazy. I said no. 

Speaker 2: You're trying to diagnose yourself. 

Speaker 1: Because I realized that I have a lot of those disorders that are listed, i decided, no, eventually I'm going to go crazy. If they talk about you know OCDs, like how you count your steps as you take them. Yes, you go up the stairs, i was like, yeah, i do that. I was like, oh, is that a disease? Or you know, sometimes when you walk you have those you know patterns on the on the ground that you kind of just don't want to step in certain places and you don't want to have your foot get. You know, like swaddling two lines. Or I was like, yeah, i have that, is that a problem? 

Speaker 2: Like oh my gosh, i think I have all of these. 

Speaker 1: So I decided now this is going to drive me crazy. How about I pick up something that is more practical? I also, you know, always like numbers and not that I enjoy just really dry math, but if you put a dollar sign in front of it, I become really, really interested, And I was like yay, accounting, how about that? Exactly two years into my psych major at UCLA, I picked up accounting minor. So I graduated with my psych major as well as accounting minor. Once I graduated, I was very determined to work in accounting, So I took the CPA exams, I passed all four modules and I still needed the 500 auditing hours to get licensed. However, I was going through some changes at home And that got me derailed from where I wanted to be And I was not able to, you know, unfortunately get the 500 hours auditing hours, and I was not able to get my license as a certified public accountant, But my love for it never sees to, you know, exist. 

Speaker 2: This though there I do my own taxes and I was going to say yeah, and I do my parents taxes. 

Speaker 1: And I was like, yeah, you know that paid for my education to just keep doing those taxes and then eventually you know that will pay for my student loans for my school days. Yeah, so after that, just because of the changes that was happening at home, I was kind of depressed and I was not in a good place mentally until a friend of my actually a classmate of my from Singapore approached me and she said I have this friend who's about to go to the United States. He's a businessman and he would like to go to the United States to make his investments there, make a business there. And I said, okay. So here he came, this businessman, very bold one. He brought his millions of dollars to the United States, But he does not speak English. And I'm thinking, wow, what a bold movie. I had some millions of dollars. I'm not going to invest in the country that I did not know the language of. Wow, He was a very courageous man. 

Speaker 1: So he came here. I ended up working with him. So as he conducted his businesses, with his different associates, with his employees, with his business partners, I had to be there for him to you know, send out emails and to be on meetings with him. Just basically, to you know, speak for him. So with it's a two man group, but with accomplished quite a few things, and people give us the nickname that he is the brain, I am the mouth And I was like, yeah, that is quite right, Wow. 

Speaker 2: He became like his own personal interpreter. 

Speaker 1: Exactly right, yeah, yeah. So at that point I was working with him, just in these, you know, this capacity of being his assistant and being his, you know, interpreter, translator. So we did that for about four or five years and we are already then, you know, to 2017, the middle of 2017. And he realized that he's got a better business opportunity back in China, so he decided to liquidate all of his businesses here in California And he's gone back to China. So I took him to the airport and I waved him goodbye, and then I realized that, oh, oh, the person who's been writing checks to me is now gone. Wait a minute. But, to be fair, he did offer me an opportunity to go with him, but because I have my families here, i can't just, you know, pack up and go to China for, you know, for two, three years. So I ended up staying. 

Speaker 1: Then I thought to myself well, you know, what can I do? Accounting is something that's already in the background And psychology was never really my passion And I was thinking well, for the past four or five years I have been translating for him What can I do? What can I, you know, can I leverage this job experience to, you know, to make a living, so I still didn't know. I mean then, as you can see, like this is, you know, learning by doing I didn't even know, translating and interpreting are two different things. Back then I was just thinking, yeah, i'm the translator, i'm the translator. So finally I did the Google search and I found out that there is a court interpreting training you know program at UCLA extension. So I signed myself up there to take the class And then I took the court interpreter exam and boom, i passed it And that took us to the end of 2017. And starting from the beginning of 2018, i have been working as a court interpreter since then. 

Speaker 2: The Orange County Department of Education is proud to host their seventh annual interpreters and translators conference September 29th and 30th at the Hilton Orange County Costa Mesa in Costa Mesa, california. This conference promotes the incredible work of interpreters and translators, bilingual persons and staff tasked with providing language access in schools and in the community. Know your path. Each step matters. To ensure language access is this year's theme and main focus. Conference sessions and engagements will respond to the core belief that language access is a foundational part of an inclusive and culturally responsive educational ecosystem. Participants will delve into unique opportunities to acquire and refine their skills, learn tips and strategies to enhance their professional practices, keep up to date with the latest trends, laws and expectations, and explore the use of diverse platforms and tools that can streamline their language service efforts. 

Speaker 2: Language access is a priority in public education and, as interpreters and translators working in the K-12 system are more visible than ever, becoming a substantial part of every educational encounter, it is imperative to professionalize the field through continuous improvement, training, growth and networking. The Orange County Department of Education Language Services team is at the forefront of providing these professional learning opportunities and experiences for its interpreters, translators, bilingual staff, school administrators and community liaisons, and is committed to communicating across cultures to provide meaningful language access to their families, students and the communities they serve. We are joining them this fall at the 2023 interpreters and translators conference to continue your professional learning and networking. Registration is now open, so head on over to the episode notes to find out more about the interpreters and translators conference hosted by the Orange County Department of Education's Language Services division, taking place September 29th and 30th. Hope to see you there. Yeah, it's incredible, but the story doesn't even end there. Because you had the opportunity to become an in-house, you were offered a full-time interpreting job and turned it down. Yeah, yeah, tell us about that. 

Speaker 1: Yeah, i did do that because what I can tell you is that, maria, that once I passed that interpreters exam and I have heard that the interpreter exam for a set out by the judicial council is so competitive and it's so difficult that my data, which could be now been updated already Back then, what I heard was that the passing rate for the Chinese language Chinese English language pair was only 4%, and that's not only, that's not for people who's only done it once. So I think there is an average to calculate that. So people taking it once or twice and eventually pass it. So, overall, the passing rate is 4%. I was able to pass it on my first try and, knowing or believing that 4% was the passing rate, and I passed it on my first try. It got me quite, i would say my ego was very inflated. I love it And I thought it was a good thing. I became really, really, i guess, ahead of myself, and that was still in the beginning of 2018. 

Speaker 1: And through, also by chance, i met a member of the ATA from Chinese language division. We got along very well. She was the Chinese language divisions administrator at that time And we had met in New York on an event And she said well, you know, would you like to come to ATA? this year's ATA conference? it's going to be in New Orleans. And I was like, what is ATA? She said what is ATA? She said Translator Association. I said okay. And then I said, you said it's going to be in New Orleans, right? She said, yeah, party place. I said, sure, i'll go, i'll go party. That was it, that's all that. That's what did it. Right, i went there to party. So, once you know, even on the way there, on the flight over, i was thinking, hmm, what's there to see? you know, i am so good, i passed the exam on my first try and it's 4% passing rate so low, and I was able to do it. 

Speaker 1: And I just I thought the whole world of myself And I thought at that moment everything was beneath me. It was a very toxic attitude, it was no good, but I just wanted to acknowledge how much I realized that I was. You know how ignorant I was at that time. But the moment I set my foot in to that evening gathering or I think it was the welcome dinner wow was an understatement, like I would say wow times 10 was how I felt And as I interacted with more and more colleagues and more and more peers, i realized that what a frog I had been in the very, very bottom of the well, like I just never knew there was a bigger world out there, and that was such a humbling experience. 

Speaker 1: And then people was like, ah, there is this Monterey, middlebury, trans Middlebury Institute at Monterey. This is the best interpreting school. If you can get into it, that means you're really good. Like what is that? And they said it is the best interpreting school and I've never heard of it. And then I was like, oh, let me not say it too loud, because that's also what I said about UCLA in the beginning. But I was able to look, for I was able to find the table from our school, middlebury Institute of International Studies at Monterey, and I spoke with Winnie, our beloved career advisor, and I spoke with her and she said no, okay. And in that moment I was thinking I'm going to give this a try to see how hard it is, how hard it can be. I'm 4% in the first try. So I did, i tried and I got in. 

Speaker 1: And that was when the headache begun, because prior to that point I was doing a lot of work for our local court, san Bernardino County Superior Court, and I was offered this position as an intermittent staff interpreter. So I had been doing that And once I got admitted by Middlebury Institute I started to really think well, do I want to go, do I not want to go? And it was a very battled decision. I asked so many people what I should, what I shouldn't. It was just really really difficult. And then it came to a point where the court that I was working at offered me this job or at least I shouldn't say they offered me. I should say that the vacancy opened up, the position opened up, and so, if I just put in my application, i was quite confident that I was able to work as a full-time staff interpreter at the court. 

Speaker 1: But because I had this going back to school thought in the back of my mind and I was thinking should I go, should I not go? Lots of back and forth, i weighed the pros and cons. It turned out that I had a long list of cons of why I shouldn't go, or the reasons why I shouldn't go, such as I would have to commute by plane twice a week and then I would have to stop working as a freelance interpreter because the course is a full-time commitment. I would not be able to make any income, as I was in school for two full years. And then, of course, there is tuition fee, which is not a small thing. So financial commitment is huge. 

Speaker 1: And then on the pro side, the reasons why I should go, i came up empty. I don't know why. Because I was like if I'm working as a court interpreter, then I already have the certification it takes to step into the job. In fact, i was almost offered one. I was very close to a full-time offer. Why go? I don't need to go. 

Speaker 1: But towards the very, very, very last day, i remember school started on August 26th of 2019, and on the same day I was on the plane flying back from Dublin from attending a conference. On the plane, i decided that I'm going to go to the school. I don't know why, but there was just this little fire burning inside of me that tells me that if I don't go, i would never know what I would miss And that would not be good. And I was thinking always err on the side of saying yes, because only you go, you find out that is not good. Then at least I can tell myself I tried, it didn't work out. I would rather that than saying, oh, i don't know, i never tried. 

Speaker 1: Yeah, well whatever, i hate what it is. Yeah. So that was when, on the flight back from Dublin, i picked my classes. At that point I had no accommodation secured. I had already missed the student orientation. I just didn't do anything because up until that point I was not going to attend. And the moment the plane landed in LA, i got home was packing my bags. My mom's, like you, just got home. I said yes, but I need to go. I'm going to school tomorrow. She said what? You're going to school tomorrow? I said, yes, i'm going to school tomorrow, it's been decided. Yeah, so that was it. That's how that story came to be. 

Speaker 1: But you know what? It was a lot of work. I did the commute twice a week by plane. I flew from the airport near where I live and I got to the airport in San Jose And after I get off the plane, i have to take the shuttle bus for 90 minutes from San Jose to Monterey to go to school. I would do that on Sunday evening And I had all my classes scheduled for Monday, tuesday and Wednesday back to back. 

Speaker 1: I would go to school on Wednesday with my bags, with my luggage, and then, as soon as class finished, i would rush back to the airport to catch the last flight back out of San Jose to my home. And I was able to still go back to work on Thursday and Friday at the local court in my intermittent capacity and, just to you know, make a bit, you know, money, so to supplement the income, and then Saturday and Sunday I would spend time with my family And then Sunday evening I go back out. I did that for about six months And, yeah, but I was determined to do it for the whole two years And but then we went into the middle of the pandemic when the school closed down, so I didn't have to commute for the majority of my courses, which was, you know, a blessing, but still, you know. So I still wished, i still wish that I had every single day, that I could on campus Every day. Yeah, it was very pleasant for me. 

Speaker 2: That is that I mean that I will never complain about traffic or having to commute somewhere, driving, for you know, long periods of time. Ever again after that story because now that is commitment to me Like to think about commute. I always think about the drive time. I've never thought about commuting and flying when I was younger, before I, you know, made my decision and will actually ended up in community interpreting. I actually dreamt about going to Middlebury Institute, but in my mind I always felt I have to move there. And then when I saw rent prices I was like, well, that's, that's, that's that dream, right, like I'm like can't afford that place out there, like, yeah, it's so expensive. 

Speaker 2: So hearing your story, i'm like that is indeed commitment. It's funny because, like I'm hearing a lot of stories, a lot of things that happen and all these crazy events that occur for you in the airport or when you're on a plane, like there is this like pattern of like in flight, right There's. Or you're even at the airport And you have another story actually that occurred to you, yeah, on a plane, and this is a fun story. So I do want, i would like, if you would share that with us about what happened to you on a flight to Mexico. 

Speaker 1: Definitely, yeah, definitely. You know, that was the story that I would tell everybody, because that was the moment when I felt how impactful our work is and how much significance it would have on a person who has no idea what is being said. So this is when I really feel that language access is such an important thing. It's not just a political slogan, it really is. It is truly what people need. And so the story happened when I was flying to Mexico City from Cancun in the beginning of this year. So the plane took off, everything was fine, and as we were approaching the Mexico City airport, plane started to descend. I looked out the windows Okay, so everything is normal, happening like a normal descent. We're about to touch down And I looked at my watch and thinking, oh good, i'm making good time because I had a remote interpreting assignment scheduled for in two hours. So I thought, okay, this is good time. 

Speaker 1: And then the plane was getting lower and lower and lower and I closed my eyes and waiting for it to land. And then suddenly I felt this push against my back And, before I knew what happened, the plane started to accelerate, because I know we had touched the ground. But then the plane just accelerated again And I felt weird and I said this is not right. This is not what a stopping plane should do. This is too fast for the plane to stop. What is happening? And as we were doing it, we were back in the sky again. 

Speaker 1: The plane took back off and I was thinking my God, what is happening? Did the landing gear fail? Are we having some kind of mechanical issues, or you know? are we, you know, being rerouted because the runway was too crowded? or, you know, the weather seemed fine. I don't know what's happening. I don't think, oh, my God, no, don't tell me, we're hijacked. Oh no, yeah, lots, yeah, oh yeah, i'm in a time and into an hour. If I don't tell them I don't show up. This is bad. I really felt that one. 

Speaker 2: Yeah, you went. from what have we got hijacked to? holy crap? I've got an interpreting assignment in two hours. 

Speaker 1: I really pat myself on my back because you know, out of all the things that could be going through my mind, like, oh my family, then you know what's going on, then my mom would be worried and blah, blah, blah The first thing that came to my mind was like no, into an hour, two and a half hours, i need to be online And I don't know if I'm ever going to be able to make it out of this plane. I was like what my client is going to think of me, oh my God. But I was like wait a minute, if we're really going to get hijacked, i probably shouldn't be thinking about that, but I think I really have great work ethics. 

Speaker 2: Totally I agree. 

Speaker 1: But you know what, luckily We took off and then the plane made a circle and came right back, landed again. I mean I call the story the dirty landing because you know you landed and you took right off. And you know, then, as the plane was making that circle, circling back to the runway, the captain turned on the announcement, speaking Spanish, and I was like, okay, good, now he's letting us know what is happening, and I was just waiting for the English to follow after the Spanish announcement. But no, there was no English announcement, it was just the Spanish, because it's a domestic flight from Cancun to Mexico City. So maybe, you know, i guess they just they really didn't see the need of having an English announcement or translation following that Spanish one. But still, as a foreign traveler, i was on that plane. I didn't know what was happening And even till today I only have the story to tell as the dirty landing. I don't know why the plane did what it did. 

Speaker 2: Wow. 

Speaker 1: But it really did cause me to have all those crazy thoughts. I was so anxious, not knowing what was happening, what to expect, and my mind went as extreme as thinking we were hijacked. 

Speaker 2: Exactly And to this day not even know what exactly happened. No, of course, like you said, because there was a language barrier there, no one really bothered to potentially think. You know we might have international, you know clients here or international passengers And and no translation and or interpretation. But advocacy for this, for language access, is actually near and dear to your heart And you do have a passion for seeing that there be more advocacy in the industry on this particular topic. So you'd like to see more of this in the profession. Would you care expanding a little bit more on that? 

Speaker 1: Well, i feel that a lot of us who are in this profession is that we realize how impactful and how powerful the result of our work can be. It not only bridges the gap, it really it empowers people, because we send information along with the language and we sent meaning along. So, given this importance and this trust, it is not to be taken lightly And I feel that we need to have, obviously, when we work in this profession, when we give our time, when we spent time to make sure we are always up to date with what is happening around us in our community, and we spent time to make sure that we're always sharpened with our language skills, we deserve to be paid well and we deserve the respect. You know, i don't appreciate how people don't understand what our jobs entail. They think that we are somehow because we speak two languages and they just tell us tell me what this one says, tell me what that says. No, i cannot tell you what it says, not without reading it first. It's almost like people don't understand how we work And I wish you know we should. All I wish there could be more efforts in educating the public, making sure they understand that our job. 

Speaker 1: We're not walking dictionaries. We're not dictionaries with legs, we are human and we are extremely talented human beings. And not only we're extremely talented, we have a big heart. We want to help people, especially those community interpreters who work in, you know, the medical interpreting, education settings and in court and legal, which doesn't really fall within the community interpreting, but I think it's the same thing, is sends the message right And it obviously we aid international dialogues. You know, so many misunderstandings and so many hiccups could have been avoided If things and messages were said and communicated in a more efficient way. So we do have a lot of power with what we do And that is not to be taken lightly And I think the public also needs to be made aware of that. 

Speaker 1: And, and sometimes I really don't appreciate, you know, when I go on these jobs, like for legal jobs or depositions, and I got there, i start interpreting And then the attorney, who may be bilingual, will immediately say, ah, wrong Objection, interpreter made a, made a mistake or interpreter misinterpretation, i guess you know. Sometimes I just feel that look, if you had a doctor sitting there given a medical opinion, you wouldn't start jump out to say, yeah, wrong, this is what you said is wrong Because you trust that medical professional, because you trust his trainings, you trust his professional experience And we are professionals. Why would we be subjected to second guessing? And if our second guessing should be done by the authorities, by the exam administrators, by the graders, if we are deemed to be good enough by passing that exam, by having our qualifications, we should not be. 

Speaker 1: I'm not saying we would not be open to constructive criticism, but I think if there is more respect to it, if you want to discuss a difference opinion on how to interpret or translate something, you wouldn't just stand up and say Wrong Objection, misinterpretation, and I just I don't feel that there is enough voice in our profession to to let other professions know that we, this is the respect that we need And there's nobody else going to do that for us unless we act on it ourselves. So that's kind of one of my big thing And yeah, and I think we should be very much, you know, compensated properly, which would reflect our skills, our commitment, and you know professionalism and your competency, our ethical conducts. You know all those we are, you know we're just extremely talented people, i think. 

Speaker 2: Yeah, absolutely. You not only speak about the importance of advocacy and that we should be advocating for ourselves and for the profession, just for the industry as a whole. You are actually boots on the ground, going out in front of assembly members, yes, and voicing your concerns with, recently, something that actually is coming up again in California. I don't know why we continue seeing this California. What are we trying to do California? but share with us a little bit about this experience for you and what would you like to see perhaps for others in the industry to support in this way or similar ways? 

Speaker 1: Yeah, definitely. So there is this bill being proposed by one of our assembly members and the bill is AB 432. So I'm not going to too much details of it, but I think the bill is the well-intended one. A lot of times our lawmakers, our legislators, they only see the problems. But you know, nobody can be an expert in everything. So our lawmakers see a problem and they realize that. Well, you know, we need to address it, we need to come up with a solution. So a solution is put forth or is being proposed, and then it takes people who are experts in this industry, in this profession, to give feedback, to let them know what are the loopholes or the pros and the cons of the things that they propose. And you know, for these kind of things it takes you and I and everybody in interpreting and translation to voice out our concerns. And for this particular bill AB 432, like I said, it's a well-intended bill because it aims to increase the number of interpreters and translators. So the very much deserved access, language access that serves our diverse communities, can continue to be there, to exist and to not be in the shortage like it is now. 

Speaker 1: But you know, i feel that there is some loose language there that could cause future confusions. And you know we want to pass a bill. We want to pass a bill with solid, concrete ways to resolve the issue. Then make it concrete. You know, don't leave it half open, like a door that's not completely open but it's also not completely closed. It will just create more problems down the line which most likely would need us to create another bill to fix. So if you can fix one thing altogether completely, why not do that just now, right? So I think, acknowledging how constructive this bill aims to the problem that this bill aims to resolve, there are some tweaks that we see, and I see personally that needs to be fixed or that needs to be somehow amended, and I voiced that concern in the meeting, along with several other ATA members to the Assembly Member's office. 

Speaker 1: The thing is that it only proves to me that advocacy, work and speaking up for a profession is not going to be a smooth sale. You are going to meet resistance, but if you give up and if you just want to be quiet and you don't say anything about the things that you don't like to see happening and you're just going to have to make your peace with it and you're going to have to suffer in silence. But why do that? Because this is the profession that we live and breathe in, and not only it pays our bill, it offers the sense of achievement. It's a very rewarding thing that we're doing. So I want this profession to thrive in a very positive way. I want our ecosystem to be healthy. 

Speaker 1: I don't want to see it, you know, being flooded with, i would say, a second tier of interpreters. I'm not saying these interpreters are not going to be good enough. They are, but they need additional trainings. They need a lot more, because too much is at stake for someone who doesn't have enough training to go and make mistakes about. That's not. That completely defeats the purpose of having them in the first place. We want the access to be granted, but good quality access. We cannot afford for people who have never been trained before and to go and start making up their own story. That's not fair And that defeats the purpose. So that is what I'm saying. We cannot just simply do our own things. If we all selfishly do our own things and not really caring about what has happened to the bigger picture, then eventually you know it's not sustainable. Things are going to exhaust itself unless you take an active effort to make it better. 

Speaker 2: Yeah, so I believe the bill just sees how we're to interrupt is very much with an emphasis on the language professional right, because the bill from a couple of years back was, i believe, if I'm not mistaken, more to do with independent contractors, like it was a general right, like general bill and interpreters, translators, language professionals would be affected. But this one specifically is very specific for language professionals, correct? 

Speaker 1: That's right, that's right. So that's why I think sometimes, you know, when the lawmakers make proposals, they don't really know the ins and outs of what is happening on the ground and it's up to us to let them know. So advocating for what we do doesn't only mean you have to actively, you know, go to your senators or assembly members office. You doesn't have to be that you write to them, you call them. I mean great, if you could do that. You know, that effort would be very much appreciated. But talking to your colleagues about it, you know, implementing certain, you know policies with your own practice, with how you conduct your own business, is also a form of advocacy. And just upholding certain standards and knowing that this is what I do, this is the standards that I uphold myself, and then this is something that I would never budge on And just put your firm down, put your foot down firmly. That is also, you know, setting boundaries and letting people know, letting the general public know. This is what a professional interpreter does And this is where the respect comes from. So it's really it seems like these are all separate pieces of things, but they all come back together That you know. I want to see us as a very well respected profession. That you know. Now, if there is a medical issue or if there is like a health issue that people debate about, they look at, you know, american Medical Association for official guidance, official opinion, and I want us, the interpreters and translators you know, eventually ATA and all these associations, professional organization that's representing interpreters and translators to be that figure of authority. But you know, i don't want us to be regarded like, as you know, she can speak Chinese, she can tell you what this document says. Ask her, yeah, yeah, exactly. So, very true, that's so. So the respect is, you know we have to build that into our own practice. That is the form of advocacy. 

Speaker 1: And then, obviously, you know you see something you don't like, you feel that it is, you know, eventually going to have an impact. You know, negatively, possibly say something about it. You know, if you don't say it, maybe you say something it's not loud enough and it doesn't get hurt. But if you don't say anything, it's definitely not going to get hurt. So you know, before that possibility, you know, speak up. And you know it's so easy to speak up, it's so easy to let your lawmakers know what your thoughts are, because that's their job. Their job is to listen to us and it's to act on our behalf for our interest. So it's definitely worth the effort to let them know. 

Speaker 1: And you know I don't mean it, i mean I don't mean this in a cliche way. I want to find, i want to build a profession much better than the way we first found it And when we first got into it. You know it's not a cliche, but it can be that way. But it takes a lot of effort. You and I, people from every you know language pair, and whether it's interpreting, translating, medical community, you know education, conference, legal, everybody. It takes all of us. 

Speaker 2: Yeah, helping each other because it's a profession, is one profession and we have different specialty areas and specializations, but could you imagine if we all do come together in moments such as these to to really build that one strong, solid voice and in unity of representation of all of us? the profession is a profession and if you've gone and done your schooling to to become a legal court interpreter, or you do your schooling to become a professional trained community interpreter, conference interpreter or whatever it may be, you've done the training, you've put in the hours, you know you have the education, you hold yourself to a higher standard, absolutely, why you put yourself through schooling right. So, that being the case, coming together as one, as one profession, which is the, the language professionals profession, the interpreters, the translators, when things like this come up, and having us tell our story as opposed to allowing someone else to tell it for us. 

Speaker 2: Absolutely, i love this so much because just the last episode we spoke about the different levels or types of advocacy that we can do, and so you know we've got the not a non intentional perhaps advocacy of being able to, to correct others in, in, like, if they're calling you a translator and saying you mean interpreter, you know there is actually a difference. Right, like it's, it's, it's a, it's a way of advocating without necessarily calling your, your assembly member, writer, or being in front of them, like, like the kind of stuff that you do. That, i feel is, you know, super, that that's like the highest tier. I feel like you know the interpreters are out there actually calling, making appointments and trying to show up. So there are ways that we can advocate for our profession, as long as we are advocating and we're not just passively hoping for the best. 

Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah others to handle the hard work. 

Speaker 2: So thank you so much for sharing that, Jesse. That is super important stuff And if you haven't already realized and figured it out, Jesse is actually the voice behind that clip in the beginning of the episode that you hear advocating for you to take some action. and go on over to the episode notes and click on the ATA link so that if you want to read more about a B432 and what it could potentially become then, then do your research to your own homework. we're leaving you the link so that you can go out there and perhaps do your little part in this big industry. Lastly, Jesse, before we get to closing, what recommendations would you like to give the new generation of language professionals that are wanting to come in and joining the profession? what recommendations from your experiences, now that you've learned, maybe something that's outside of the airport, that you would want to give and you would want to give to a new generation of language professionals? 

Speaker 1: I'm a big believer of networking. It is so important I cannot stress it enough that for me, i think that professional organizations are such a huge asset to my to my career so far, and I realized that all the people in working in interpreter, interpreting, on translators my experience is that they are all extremely nice. I haven't really come across to any mean ones or any selfish ones really, or I've just been really fortunate. I have met so many great people who are very helpful And you know, as long as you return the favor, reciprocate that kindness by being helpful to others, you know things are going to come back to you. And then another important tip that I would like to share is that get yourself heard, because as you conduct advocacy work and when you engage a lot in these networking events, people are going to know who you are And you're going to have a lot more opportunities to share your opinions, make your voice heard and you know, eventually, more clients, more work opportunities, because we have to be honest with ourselves And this you know, yes, this is great, we are very rewarded with the kind of work we do, but you know we still, at the end of the day, we still have to make a living And the work opportunities are really important. So the more people you know and the more pathways or doors they open up for you. And that has been what's the most important thing, or most helpful thing to me. 

Speaker 1: So getting very active to different conferences organized by organizations for interpreters and translators, such as you know. The big ones are the ATA, the NADJIT and the AJIT, and I think in California there's also the Association of Independent Judicial Interpreters and Translators And I think there are a few more, the original ones, the chapters of the ATA. So get really involved and very active with those organizations. And I mean, you know there is no downside to it, making friends. 

Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly. 

Speaker 1: Yeah, so I think that would. That would just be my biggest tip to anyone who is still, you know, working their way through and to join this great, very talented force. 

Speaker 2: Absolutely very talented and great force. I love that. I love that so much, jesse, it has been an absolute pleasure sharing this space with you. Before we go, however, where can our listeners find out more about you and the work that you do? 

Speaker 1: I do have a web page or a website, and I also have a LinkedIn page And I'm going to I believe you're going to link that in the show notes. Mariah, that's correct, Yeah, yeah. 

Speaker 2: Yeah, okay, great. I'll head on over and say hello to Jesse via the link if you'd like to connect with her. Jesse, thank you so very much. Your stories are amazing, and I know that we're going to be meeting each other at the NADJIT conference coming up in about a week or so, so I will see you there. 

Speaker 1: Yes, definitely. Thank you so much for having me. I had a great time chatting with you and I look forward to seeing you in person.